Graves signs for three years - Page 5 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Chip R · 11-07-2003, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GoReds
What I remember most about Danny's starts is that his pitches were consistently up in the zone. THAT (and the resistance to starting) proved to be Danny's undoing.

I'm hoping that Danny and the Reds now understand how much work needs to be invested in Danny to make the starting experiment work. It's easy to throw dollars at a problem expecting a fix - now they have to have the effort. IMO, Danny really screwed up. Hopefully, he will have the motivation not to look so bad given the opportunity this year.

That's exactly what his problem was last year. His ground ball to fly ball ratio was not even close to what it was in previous seasons. Now I don't know if that was because he didn't have a windup or not. Not winding up didn't seem to affect his GB ratio when he was relieving. I think that he also was not motivated to start. Sure, you can say that he had that new contract to motivate him but evidently that didn't do the trick. So they either need to find a different form of motivation or put him back in the bullpen.

gm · 11-07-2003, 03:24 PM

"So they either need to find a different form of motivation"

No more tatoos or body piecings until you win 10 decisions/year?

No change of hairstyle until 15 wins

etc

Chip R · 11-07-2003, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gm
"So they either need to find a different form of motivation"

No more tatoos or body piecings until you win 10 decisions/year?

No change of hairstyle until 15 wins

etc

Whatever it takes.

RedFanAlways1966 · 11-07-2003, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chip R
Whatever it takes.

FCB.... oh FCB, where are you?!?!

Would you might betting an FCB kid on Danny winning 10 or 15 games in the 2004 season? The REDS need you, brother!

Come on... the kid's "Jimmy term" has to about be done. Should be available for another Dad-bet. Do it for your team, man!

TeamBoone · 11-07-2003, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by westofyou
Reds.MLB.com's Chris Haft reports Cincinnati Reds P Danny Graves has been sent back to the bullpen after struggling as a starter. "I'm extremely excited," said Graves. "I'm excited that my arm's not going to hurt any more. It (starting) is something that's just not for me."

That was stated AFTER the fact, not before, which is what I thought you meant in your original statement.

westofyou · 11-07-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

That was stated AFTER the fact, not before, which is what I thought you meant in your original statement.

What I "really" meant is that Graves "knew" he was going to be a starter, he "knew" he needed to learn to pitch from the windup, he also "knew" that his contract was being based on the hope that he would sufficently eat up innings.

It all failed and now the Reds will be paying a guy over 10% of their payroll and he'll pitch less than 5% of the innings next season.

GoReds · 11-07-2003, 04:54 PM

Danny, hello, my name is Dan O'Brien, the new GM. Listen, I heard about the problems that you had pitching last year. I also understand that you signed a starter's contract. Okay, so here's the deal - work on the windup and keeping the pitches down or I'll send you to Detroit for a paperweight and you can room with Dmitri.

Look forward to seeing that windup in ST, Danny.

Oh, and, get your hair cut.

TeamBoone · 11-07-2003, 05:09 PM

OK, now I'm even more confused. I was not aware that Danny becoming a starter was a done deal at the time his LTC was signed... or that it had even been discussed.

But then, my memory has failed me before.

GAC · 11-08-2003, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Chip R
And I thought you weren't a SABR guy.

It didn't take SABR to come to that conclusion.

We can get the same production from Graves, in the closer roles, for alot less money IMO.

Those guys are out there.

Remember...."NOBODY SCORES ON DANNY GRAVES!" :evilgrin:

Chip R · 11-08-2003, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GAC
It didn't take SABR to come to that conclusion.

We can get the same production from Graves, in the closer roles, for alot less money IMO.

Those guys are out there.

Remember...."NOBODY SCORES ON DANNY GRAVES!" :evilgrin:

Come out of the closet, GAC. We know you dream about bullpens by committee and players with a big OPS.

Raisor · 11-08-2003, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TeamBoone
OK, now I'm even more confused. I was not aware that Danny becoming a starter was a done deal at the time his LTC was signed... or that it had even been discussed.

But then, my memory has failed me before.

It has this time

Don't forget, Danny had that starting "tryout" at the end of 2002. That's when it was decided that he would be converted for 2003, and that was before the contract.

TeamBoone · 11-08-2003, 12:06 PM

Yup, it's definitely declined (my memory, just in case you forgot what I'm referring too, LOL). Because I thought his LTC was signed during the 2001 offseason.

Yikes!

WVRedsFan · 11-09-2003, 03:26 PM

I'll stick to what I said in January. Why offer that much money to a kid who hadn't started a game? It was Bowden's pipe dream to save money. Was he the ace? No and there was no reason to believe he would be. Not one. Could we expect Scott Williamson to last a season as closer? No. His history of arm trouble and his tendency to be very hittable gave me pause.

Not dissing either player, but this was a flawed deal from the beginning. It was based on hopes and dreams. That's one heck of a lot of money for hopes and dreams. And the result is legendary. Bust.

And for those who think he could be persuaded to believe in himself as a starter, I give you a line from the movie "Rookie of the Year."

"You have to reach down to your "want to." Or something like that. Danny has proven he doesn't want to.

paulrichjr · 11-09-2003, 11:49 PM

He didn't have to "want to". The deal was signed... He was locked up for 3 years. Do you think that if he had had a 1 year contract he might have pitched differently. Just think what his contract would be this year after last years mess? 3 million tops - maybe 2 million. He would have learned how to pitch like a starter and not abandoned the plan in March. Bowden blew this big time. Was the Griffey deal dumb? Yes but understandable. This one was not understandable considering that he was being converted and had never really pitched as a starter.

TeamBoone · 11-10-2003, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WVRedsFan
Danny has proven he doesn't want to.

Do you really think Danny went out there on that mound for almost the entire season and didn't try to do his best? I honestly feel he has a whole lot more pride than that, and I don't believe it for a second.

11-07-2003, 03:24 PM	#62
gm All dyslexics must untie! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: SW Portland, OR Posts: 8,604	"So they either need to find a different form of motivation" No more tatoos or body piecings until you win 10 decisions/year? No change of hairstyle until 15 wins etc __________________ Never overlook the obvious

11-07-2003, 05:09 PM	#68
TeamBoone "Let's Roll" Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 12,821	OK, now I'm even more confused. I was not aware that Danny becoming a starter was a done deal at the time his LTC was signed... or that it had even been discussed. But then, my memory has failed me before. __________________ "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

11-08-2003, 12:06 PM	#72
TeamBoone "Let's Roll" Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 12,821	Yup, it's definitely declined (my memory, just in case you forgot what I'm referring too, LOL). Because I thought his LTC was signed during the 2001 offseason. Yikes! __________________ "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

11-09-2003, 03:26 PM	#73
WVRedsFan Lime in da Coconut Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Rainelle, WV Posts: 7,712	I'll stick to what I said in January. Why offer that much money to a kid who hadn't started a game? It was Bowden's pipe dream to save money. Was he the ace? No and there was no reason to believe he would be. Not one. Could we expect Scott Williamson to last a season as closer? No. His history of arm trouble and his tendency to be very hittable gave me pause. Not dissing either player, but this was a flawed deal from the beginning. It was based on hopes and dreams. That's one heck of a lot of money for hopes and dreams. And the result is legendary. Bust. And for those who think he could be persuaded to believe in himself as a starter, I give you a line from the movie "Rookie of the Year." "You have to reach down to your "want to." Or something like that. Danny has proven he doesn't want to. __________________ www.ris-news.com "The price of seeking to force our beliefs on others is that someday they might force their beliefs on us." Mario Cuomo "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5." -Beano Cook

11-09-2003, 11:49 PM	#74
paulrichjr Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Savannah, TN Posts: 2,775	He didn't have to "want to". The deal was signed... He was locked up for 3 years. Do you think that if he had had a 1 year contract he might have pitched differently. Just think what his contract would be this year after last years mess? 3 million tops - maybe 2 million. He would have learned how to pitch like a starter and not abandoned the plan in March. Bowden blew this big time. Was the Griffey deal dumb? Yes but understandable. This one was not understandable considering that he was being converted and had never really pitched as a starter. __________________ Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

11-07-2003, 04:54 PM	#67
GoReds Cruisin' for trouble Join Date: May 2000 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 3,287	Danny, hello, my name is Dan O'Brien, the new GM. Listen, I heard about the problems that you had pitching last year. I also understand that you signed a starter's contract. Okay, so here's the deal - work on the windup and keeping the pitches down or I'll send you to Detroit for a paperweight and you can room with Dmitri. Look forward to seeing that windup in ST, Danny. Oh, and, get your hair cut.

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