Pros and Cons of Keeping Miley

[Kc61]

I sense a wide divergence of views on Miley. He's been criticized on game threads lately, particularly for his use of the bullpen. Others have loved the guy since they discovered he is not Bob Boone.

Miley pros. He is not Bob Boone. He doesn't change his lineup for no reason. The players play hard for him. He is low keyed. I think his strategies are generally decent, although not his use of the bullpen. Works cheap. Hasn't had major flare ups with players or GM.

Miley cons. Seems to use bullpen randomly (except the bullpen is so bad what's the difference?). Pulls starters either too early or too late. Seems like a company man; hard to see a positive influence coming from him. Took him a long time to appreciate talents of WMP.

On balance, I would keep Miley next year, but only because Reds are too cheap to get a difference maker to manage the team. Views?

[Unassisted]

I think Miley's back in 2005 unless there's an unforeseen slide into last place. Right now, there's no catalyst to get rid of a manager who is capable and works cheap.

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by Kc61

I sense a wide divergence of views on Miley. He's been criticized on game threads lately, particularly for his use of the bullpen. Others have loved the guy since they discovered he is not Bob Boone.

Miley pros. He is not Bob Boone. He doesn't change his lineup for no reason. The players play hard for him. He is low keyed. I think his strategies are generally decent, although not his use of the bullpen. Works cheap. Hasn't had major flare ups with players or GM.

Miley cons. Seems to use bullpen randomly (except the bullpen is so bad what's the difference?). Pulls starters either too early or too late. Seems like a company man; hard to see a positive influence coming from him. Took him a long time to appreciate talents of WMP.

On balance, I would keep Miley next year, but only because Reds are too cheap to get a difference maker to manage the team. Views?

I've been anti-Miley for awhile now. I don't know if it's the frustration of another losing season or the little things he does that drives me crazy.

The Pros - somewhat like you. In fact, totally the comprehensive list, but if that's the only reason to keep a manager, then this franchise will never win another pennant. Simply put, there are talented individuals who motivate even marginal players to play as a team and do their best. I see no evidence of that in our guy. He is too low key. There is no "rah-rah." Name me one successful manager in today's environment without fire.

The Cons - You pretty much hit them all. Of course you missed the biggest one -- he's cheap. Yeah, i know I listed a "con" in the pros column, so add that too. I watched tonight as he sent Phil Norton into the game for the umpteenth time to allow his usual 3 runs--just after we had tied the game. Then comes Reidling (always he is the second pitcher to come in -- get the pattern?), who allows three runs before getting an out. Then you bring in your lefty - White to allow an inherited runner to score. He ended up with Van P--who allows another HR. Where was Wagner? Valentine? Anyone but the designated pitchers? If it ain't on the pre-game schedule we don't do it.

If I'm DanO, I say thank you to Miley and hire my own man. Give Dave a scouting job or something and get who I want. It's going to happen anyway--why delay the pain? But, public pressure will make him yield to an extension for Miley. I can live with it, but can't see any improvement being made in the field management if he stays. IOW's, he was a minor league manager for so long for a reason.

One final thought...Miley is NOT the reason the Reds are doing so poorly. You can point your finger at a bullpen that pitches five innings, allows seven hits (2 of them HR's), seven runs (five earned), and only throws half of their pitches for strikes. FYI, that ERA is 9.00. But to give him an extension because he has a lousy pitching staff excuses all the other errors in judgement--rookie mistakes. Can we afford to give on-the-job training, or should we get a really good manager with experience in this rebuilding time?

It's a tough question. Problem is, most of us have emotional ties one way or another. Let's hope O'Brien has the non-emotional sense to make the right decision.

[Krusty]

After having Bob Boone for three years, Miley's mistakes are something I can live with for the time being.

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by Krusty

After having Bob Boone for three years, Miley's mistakes are something I can live with for the time being.

And that's the problem, Krusty. If we always compare everyone to BB, they are much better than they really are.

Then again, if I had to choose BB or DM, I go with Dave. And if they extend his contract, I surely won't throw a hissy fit. But, is he ever going to lead this or any team to the post season? I think the answer is no.

Once again, I hope O'Brien can look at this thing objectively and make the right decision. His past track record is so varied that I don't have a feel on what he will do.

[Wheelhouse]

I'd only be in favor of pulling Miley for a guy with MAJOR previous success in the bigs, like Leyland, or Davey Johnson. Otherwise, I think he's a good manager in his first full year in the bigs--I'd give him time. Now, I would not be one bit surprised to see him let go--and I wouldn't blame Dan O--if the Reds don't win in 3 years it's Dan O's butt on the line--he should have the guy he wants.

[Spring~Fields]

I don’t like his mixed bag of lineups, Miley doesn’t seem to be putting his best forward so to speak when he makes out the card, his lineups seem to give the opposing pitcher and defense a break.

I would like to see him use his best bats up front consistently.

Freel
Dunn
Kearns
Casey
Pena
Jimenez
Lopez
Larue

Miley could at least make the opposing pitcher sweat a bit and work for their wins.

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by Wheelhouse

I'd only be in favor of pulling Miley for a guy with MAJOR previous success in the bigs, like Leyland, or Davey Johnson. Otherwise, I think he's a good manager in his first full year in the bigs--I'd give him time. Now, I would not be one bit surprised to see him let go--and I wouldn't blame Dan O--if the Reds don't win in 3 years it's Dan O's butt on the line--he should have the guy he wants.

I totally agree. Get with the program or cut bait. If we won't put up for a successful manager, we don't have the commitment to win championships anyway. Miley if this is all we get. Someone else if we have aspirations to win. It's plain as day.

[cincinnati chili]

It's unlikely, but I would laugh out loud uncontrollably if some other major league team, such as the Diamondbacks, snatched Dave Miley in the off-season. I'm iffy on keeping him. But I think it was majorly bush of the Reds to offer him a one-year contract. Now that he's shown he's competent and perhaps a lot BETTER than competent, he's exposed to the free market.

[UKFlounder]

Originally Posted by cincinnati chili

It's unlikely, but I would laugh out loud uncontrollably if some other major league team, such as the Diamondbacks, snatched Dave Miley in the off-season. I'm iffy on keeping him. But I think it was majorly bush of the Reds to offer him a one-year contract. Now that he's shown he's competent and perhaps a lot BETTER than competent, he's exposed to the free market.

I thought it was a 1 year deal with a team option for the 2nd year, but perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by UKFlounder

I thought it was a 1 year deal with a team option for the 2nd year, but perhaps I'm remembering incorrectly.

No, you are remembering correctly. Miley isn't going to be a free agent unless the Reds don't want him.

[remdog]

By Chip: Miley isn't going to be a free agent unless the Reds don't want him.

Works for me.

Rem

[Ravenlord]

Once again, I hope O'Brien can look at this thing objectively and make the right decision. His past track record is so varied that I don't have a feel on what he will do.

we also need to remember, O'Brien didn't pick Miley, ownership with John Allen did. O'Brien wanted the guy from Tampa Bay.

[Krusty]

Nah, O'Brien wanted the Pirates director of player development, Brian Grahman, to be the Reds next manager.

[Redsland]

I don't like the way he consistently lets himself get out-managed during games, and I don't like the way he handles his pitchers.

But what really grates on me is the total lack of fire mentioned by WV above. This guy gets his guts stomped out every night, and instead of showing some emotion about it, he looks at his feet and mumbles something about "finding a way." Dave, if your sucky sucks suck, then you're not going to find a way, because there is no way. So throw some bats, scream at Phil Norton, and show these kids that their sucky sucking isn't how we do things here.