RON OESTER fired

[Hubba]

Do you think this is a clue? When you work for someone you do it their way. Sounds like Oster didn't do that.

"
"We don't have anyone in mind," Naehring said. "I'm going to sit down with Dan and talk about it. I want to make sure whoever it is is 100 percent comfortable with the way we do things."

[traderumor]

I deplore "yes" men. However, one has to be within an organization to identify if that is the culture. Jim Bowden survived several years with dubious credentials in the latter years, and I have not seen too many charactrizations of him being a "yes" man. Some also think that Miley has went toe to toe with DO on occasion regarding personnel decisions. His contract was picked up for the second year. Is he simply toeing the company line in every instance? What is the evidence that he does so? Perhaps there is confusion about expressing an opinion to superiors but then doing what the superiors ask if they do not agree with the employee's dissenting opinion. That person is not a "yes" man--he is employed. Ronnie is not.

[REDREAD]

I'm not going to cry over OESTER getting canned, but this is so funny.
DanO rehiring OESTER was hailed as him correcting one of Bowden's 'big injustices'
I find it hillarious and ironic that Oester didn't even last a year (compared to the
many years that he lasted under Bowden... In fact, Bowden never fired him, Oester quit).

However, I bet Bowden had a much better ability to work with independent and/or dissenting
opinions that DanO does. I do believe Oester that DanO wants to surround himself with "yes men".
That's very distressing, as it means the Reds will probably never do anything innovative under DanO's
watch

[MWM]

Deflection? Or maybe it just might be possible that it's Ronnie's fault. I think some people think Oester represents the old way of baseball, so they can't come to grips with the idea that he might be wrong. He's always struck me as a malcontent who isn't willing to take direction. He wants Naehring's job.

I'm sorry, but I don't care what organization you work for, if you aren't in line with the way they do things you're going to be asked to leave. You can't run an organization if you've got key people wanting to do their own thing and consistently causing a conflict every time you disagree. If you have big disagreements with the way the organization does things, you absolutely can't approach it the way Ronnie does. It's counterproductive. If he had such a problem with the organizational direction, then he should have decided to leave on his own rather than cry like a big baby.

Don't make Ronnie out to be some kind of martyr here. He probably deserved what he got.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

I'm not going to cry over OESTER getting canned, but this is so funny.
DanO rehiring OESTER was hailed as him correcting one of Bowden's 'big injustices'
I find it hillarious and ironic that Oester didn't even last a year (compared to the
many years that he lasted under Bowden... In fact, Bowden never fired him, Oester quit).

However, I bet Bowden had a much better ability to work with independent and/or dissenting
opinions that DanO does. I do believe Oester that DanO wants to surround himself with "yes men".
That's very distressing, as it means the Reds will probably never do anything innovative under DanO's
watch

What makes you think it was between DO and not Naehring? Naehring is Oester's supervisor and seems to be the person deeming his dismissal necessary.

As for surrounding one's self with "yes" men, it is a false assumption that following the direction of one's superiors starves innovation. The wise subordinate innovator provides ideas within the company's political structure. He might even humble himself and let the superior think that the innovation was his idea if it will make the organization succeed. The foolish subordinate innovator throws out his chest and pridefully refuses to kiss anyone's butt. The organization that he purports to care about and wants to help doesn't ge t the benefit of his innovation.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by MWM

I'm sorry, but I don't care what organization you work for, if you aren't in line with the way they do things you're going to be asked to leave. You can't run an organization if you've got key people wanting to do their own thing and consistently causing a conflict every time you disagree.

Don't make Ronnie out to be some kind of martyr here. He probably deserved what he got.

True. There's a difference between a Yes-man or a butt kisser and someone who wants to do things their own way. And another thing, he couldn't get along with JimBo and Co. and now he can't get along with DanO and Co. Say what you want about each GM but you have to admit that their styles and personalities are polar opposites. Oester couldn't get along with either regime so he's gone. What does that tell you about him? I don't think Oester will be happy unless he's GM. Then he won't have to worry about conflicts with his superiors.

[Ga_Red]

2/09/07

[Red Leader]

I don't dislike the firing as it seems to me to be what others have said, he didn't follow orders and instead wanted to do things his way, and since that is a huge part of his job, he wasn't being viewed as being "a good fit". That's acceptable.

[lollipopcurve]

Totally agree with MWM, Chip and others who speculate that Ronnie O probably deserved to go. He's always struck me as a guy who thinks he deserves to have a place in the Reds organization just because he was born in Cincy and played for the Reds. In my mind, he has been given carte blanche by lotsa fans and the local media, and it has gone to his head. My guess is they'll try to make him out to be a martyr again -- talk about lack of a fresh perspective.

Good move by the FO -- shows me they're not afraid to take a PR hit, and to admit a mistake.

[dougflynn23]

RonnieO was my manager at Reds Baseball Heaven and I respect him as a stand-up guy, but even in Sarasota he was complaining about the Spring Training set-up and minor league pitch counts. I wondered how long it would take before he and management's relationship imploded. In any industry, you have to kiss butt; it's the way of the world, and RonnieO isn't very good at it. There has to be some bitterness remaining in that the manager job he feels he was cheated out of was likely his one shot at managing in the big leagues...the name Ron Oester doesn't mean anything outside of Cincy. I hate when people blow up the bridge on their way out of town.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by dougflynn23

RonnieO was my manager at Reds Baseball Heaven and I respect him as a stand-up guy, but even in Sarasota he was complaining about the Spring Training set-up and minor league pitch counts. I wondered how long it would take before he and management's relationship imploded. In any industry, you have to kiss butt; it's the way of the world, and RonnieO isn't very good at it.

There's nothing wrong with having a difference of opinions and not wanting to kiss butt. I'm sure most of us have a difference of opinions with the people who run the places where we work. And some of us may kiss butt and some of us may just choose to keep silent and do our jobs like the companies want us to even if we disagree. Oester was a member of an organization - or we could say he was a member of a team. Since Oester was a former player he knows what it is like to be part of a team. As a team player you may disagree with how the manager runs things but you don't make a stink about it. I wonder if Oester ever disagreed with any of his managers' strategies? Did he think Rose should have pinch hit Player A instead of Player B during a game? If he did, did he start carping about it? No manager worth his salt would put up with that on a regular basis. But it seems here like Oester isn't a team player. He may not have thought what DanO is doing is the right way to go about things but he needed to suck it up and do what he was hired to do the way they wanted him to or else he should have quit. Oester now can take his act elsewhere. I just hope for his sake that they run things exactly the way he wants it to be ran.

[princeton]

It was just last month that they were talking about RonO's importance to the organization-- they gave him a lot of input into the Philadelphia deals, it seemed.

I also thought that some of our MIers, FeLo in particular but maybe Olmedo too, got themselves together once Oester showed up. Machado tanked in Philly once Oester left. Who knows if any of it was his influence, but something happened

As an employer, I've discovered that I'd rather have a great person on a flexible schedule than a bad one who fits my schedule. Hopefully this move won't prove to be as bad as a similar one in which Leland Maddux (he of the fine 2003 draft) was cashed out for Terry Reynolds (owner of the shoddiest draft record in history). There was a rumor that Maddux didn't fit DanO's schedule because he wanted to base his operations outside of Cincinnati.

Don't silence your critics: employ 'em and challenge 'em to do better.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by princeton

As an employer, I've discovered that I'd rather have a great person on a flexible schedule than a bad one who fits my schedule.

I'm not really sure how that applies in this situation. First, there's scant evidence that Oester is a great talent in what he does - which is what I assume you meant because I don't pretend to judge Oester as a person. Secondly, the schedule doesn't seem to be the problem but rather the differences in philosophy. It's one thing if you are really good in what you do and want to work out of your home. It's quite another when your boss says do it like this and you don't. If Oester thought the philosophy stunk clear back before ST, why did he even A. Take the job and B. keep working for the Reds?

[princeton]

Originally Posted by Chip R

the schedule doesn't seem to be the problem but rather the differences in philosophy

"the demands of the on-field coordinator are time-consuming" cited Tim Naehring


personally, I've no idea how RonO is at the on-field job, but I suspect that he'd be ideal.

Last year the Reds needed to hire a completely new team of developers with a history of success, and all they really did was bring in RonO. Pfft. But immediately RonO goes so the turnover slows even more. It's an inauspicious start to the offseason, IMO

[princeton]

personally, rather than giving us a lot of "time," or buying our "philosophy," I'd be more interested in results from my team of developers, the only prominent new member of which is RonO. Are players more ready this year than in previous years?

Certain players were. Dunn and Pena are the big accomplishments this year, and I doubt that Ron had squat to do with that. But beyond that there's Lopez, EdE, Gardner and Pauly. I doubt that Oester had much to do with the pitchers, but M2 and I were speculating at the beginning of the year that Oester would either ruin FeLo for good or else be the best thing that ever happened to him. Maybe it's neither, but FeLo looks so much better and who's new?Maybe Chambliss, maybe Whisler, maybe Oester. Keep 'em all and see if EdE can be next.

I'd have Oester in FL right now, and Maddux would have run that '04 draft. Don't fire anyone after a success unless you're sure that they had nothing to do with it.