Do The Steelers Have A Chance Against The Patriots?

[Mutaman]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

[B]

The league's most overrated QB is about to be brought down to earth. .

Wrong, the league's most overated QB was brought down to earth on Sunday. His name is Manning, and he showed what he's like when he has to play outside on real grass. (On Friday Phil Simms called Manning the "Michael Jordan of the NFL". Think he'd like to have that statement back?).

The guy from the Steelers is only the third most overated, Pennington is number 2.

[MWM]

Nah, no one could possibly be more over-rated than Tom Brady. I actually read on ESPN where a writer said that this past Sunday proves that Brady is better than Manning. Funny, I never saw Brady out on the field holding the best offense in the league to 3 points.

[NJReds]

Originally Posted by MWM

Nah, no one could possibly be more over-rated than Tom Brady.

Brady doesn't put up the prolific numbers, but he doesn't have the offensive weapons that Manning does, either. Until this year he had an average running game, at best, and a handful of good-not-great receivers. Manning has a HOF wide receiver and an All-Pro running back, two receiving TEs and two very good complimentary receivers.

Until Manning wins a big game outdoors, he'll continue to have his "greatness" questioned. He looked lost on Sunday. He looked defeated, confused and dejected in the first quarter.

For now, Manning QBs fantasy championship teams...Brady QBs Super Bowl championship teams.

For the record, I'm not a Patriots or a Colts fan. I like watching both Manning and Brady -- and I do want to see Manning get over the hump and win the big one. Overrated or not, Brady was a QB for 2 SBs, came out with 2 wins, and two SB MVP awards.

[Danny Serafini]

This is the matchup of the 2 most overrated QBs in football. I'm really sick of the Big Ben hype, but at least they're not putting him in the Hall of Fame like they are Brady, which is ridiculous. Something tells me I'll just turn the TV off after the NFC title game, this one will just make me sick listening to the announcers gush over two average guys like they're Joe Montana.

[Redsfaithful]

Originally Posted by MWM

Nah, no one could possibly be more over-rated than Tom Brady. I actually read on ESPN where a writer said that this past Sunday proves that Brady is better than Manning. Funny, I never saw Brady out on the field holding the best offense in the league to 3 points.

Seriously. Brady pretty much put up the same numbers that Jon Kitna put up in 2003. That says something.

[GAC]

I find it hard to label a QB over-rated when he was instrumental in winning 2 Super Bowls (and may win a 3rd).

[GAC]

EVERYONE MAKE NOTE OF THIS.... I AGREE WITH DOM!



Pitt's passing offense was pretty putrid statistically speaking and overall.

Ben's a rookie, and because of that, needs to be given alot of credit for what he has accomplished this year. He's not a Manning. he doesn't throw for alot of yardage/game, nor the TDs. But I see him as having other fine points (alot like a Krentzel in some aspects)..... he's smart, makes few mistakes, and is very efficient with the passing yardage he does have.

Now that may be put to the test come this post-season, and against the Pats. He didn't exactly "shine" last weekend versus the Jets.

Both teams are gonna emphasize the run, and use the passing game to set up their running attack. It's gonna be a ball control-clock control type of game. And I'm still not betting against Belicheck on this one.

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

There's a reason for that.

Yeah, and it's the fact that Dillon sat out the game earlier in the year. The Pats set league lows with something like 4 rushing yards on 5 attempts.

Anyone think that is going to happen again?

The league's most overrated QB is about to be brought down to earth. I get sort of tired of sports fans being blown away by mediocrity. Rothlisberger isn't a 300 yard 4 TD kind of QB, which he doesn't need be in Pittsburgh, I understand, but I don't think defenses have to really plan for this caliber of player.

Put Rothlisberger on the Colts and they would have went nowhere.

I like Big Ben the person, and it isn't his fault he has been built up by the media, but he just isn't that good.

And whoever said the Steelers had the better passing game is smoking crack.

[Danny Serafini]

Originally Posted by GAC

I find it hard to label a QB over-rated when he was instrumental in winning 2 Super Bowls (and may win a 3rd).

I'd argue the defense and Bill Belichick were a lot more instrumental than Brady in winning those games. It's like the old saying says, the QB usually gets too much credit when the team wins and too much blame when they lose.

[Dom Heffner]

Wrong, the league's most overated QB was brought down to earth on Sunday. His name is Manning, and he showed what he's like when he has to play outside on real grass. (On Friday Phil Simms called Manning the "Michael Jordan of the NFL". Think he'd like to have that statement back?).

Mutaman, I hate Peyton Manning. Cannot stand him. Watching him call 40,000 audibles per game and move around in the backfield the way he does is like watching a "very special episode" of Family Matters to me.

(And he makes playing the Colts on Madden almost unbearable. Is there a cheat code to make it stop?)

But the guy is not overrated. Anyone who thought he would throw for 400 yards and 5 TD against the Pats defense in the snow would have lost many a bet. Yes, the importance of having a guy like Manning can be overstated - he doesn't win games by himself- but geesh, the guy will go down as one of the best ever. That comes from someone who cannot stand the guy. Feel the same way about Eli. How sweet was it to watch the Chargers make the playoffs and see the Giants stay home?

The Brady argument is an interesting one. Someone said the other day that he is already a shoo-in hall of famer because of the 2 Super Bowls.

Personally, I think SuperBowls are overrated, at least in looking at an individual's performance. There is no way you would ever convince me that say, Phil Simms was a better QB than John Elway in 1986-87, yet Simms and the Giants won the Super Bowl. Super Bowls are won by teams, and I think Elway is the perfect example of this. When the NFC dominated the AFC all those years (they had better teams, imagine that), it had nothing to do with John Elway. Yet he was the goat of the team in some respects. When he finally got a running back and a great defense, the Broncos finally won a Super Bowl.

There was an article rating the best QBs a few months ago on espn.com, and Joe Montana was rated the best ever. All the panelists voting mentioned the Super Bowls that "he" won. I really find this a frustrating argument, because Joe Montana would not have won many Super Bowls playing for most other teams.

John Elway would have been number 1 on espn's list, but one sportswriter placed him 12th or 13th, thus assuring Montana the number one spot.

Can you imagine what Elway would have done on those 49er teams? Now imagine Joe Montana playing on the Broncos those years? Who do you think would have won more Super Bowls? Warren Moon would have made a killing playing for San Francisco.

For me, it's the team, not the QB, when it comes to Super Bowl wins.

Brady benefits from a terrific supporting cast, and while he is better than a Trent Dilfer, should not be cast into the hall of fame just because he has won 2 Super Bowls. I hate, hate, hate, how much Super Bowls are taken into account for the Pro Football hall of fame.

The same goes for all-time best lists. On on hand, they'll call Anthony Munoz the best tackle of all time - and he did not win any Super Bowls- yet Joe Montana can be considered the best QB of all time simply because he won so many. I'll take a lot of flack for this, but Joe Montana was not anywhere near the most talented QB that I have ever seen. Marino, Moon, Elway, Manning- now those are quarterbacks. Any one of those guys could have racked up Super Bowl rings playing for a team like the Niners. Heck, David Krieg would have won 4 Super Bowls playing for them.

To me, when we ask the question "Who is the best?" we should look at the player and not just how well their teams did. A great player can contribute to a team's winning, obviously, but an athlete can play wonderfully and still not win much. Earl Campbell played for some terrible Oilers teams, yet he was incredible. Same goes for Walter Payton. When the Bears finally won the Super Bowl, Walter was the same player he had been up until that point- he just finally had a team around him, so they won. Imagine that.

I'll get off my soapbox now and remind everyone that the planets have aligned in some strange fashion if GAC and I have agreed on anything.

I will admit GAC, when I saw that you responded to this post, I thought we would have something brand new to argue about.

Clarence Thomas, however, is another matter.

[deltachi8]

Originally Posted by wheels

The Bengals shoulda beat 'em twice.

coulda, woulda, shoulda

[Puffy]

I think Drew Bledsoe will outplay Kordell Stewart and thus the New England Pats will win.

[deltachi8]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

There's a reason for that.

Yeah, and it's the fact that Dillon sat out the game earlier in the year. The Pats set league lows with something like 4 rushing yards on 5 attempts.

Anyone think that is going to happen again?

The league's most overrated QB is about to be brought down to earth. I get sort of tired of sports fans being blown away by mediocrity. Rothlisberger isn't a 300 yard 4 TD kind of QB, which he doesn't need be in Pittsburgh, I understand, but I don't think defenses have to really plan for this caliber of player.

Put Rothlisberger on the Colts and they would have went nowhere.

I like Big Ben the person, and it isn't his fault he has been built up by the media, but he just isn't that good.

And whoever said the Steelers had the better passing game is smoking crack.

Dillion didnt play but remember the PAts did fall behind big early - so Im not sure how much of a factor he woul dhave been anyways.

Rothlisberger is doing what the team asks him to do, thats it. He is a rookie and will get better.

The steelers, however, I think are in over their heads this weekend.

[Puffy]

I think Terry Bradshaw will outplay Steve Grogan and therefore the Steelers will win.

[Mutaman]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

[B]

But the guy is not overrated. Anyone who thought he would throw for 400 yards and 5 TD against the Pats defense in the snow would have lost many a bet. Yes, the importance of having a guy like Manning can be overstated - he doesn't win games by himself- but geesh, the guy will go down as one of the best ever.

Don you make some good points. And I admit I am really predjudiced against stats put up in domes on artificial surfaces. The game was made to be played outdoors. I didn't expect Manning to throw 5 tds on Sunday but I don't think asking him to compete is too much. He scored 3 points against a team missing two cornerbacks and an all pro lineman. And he spent the whole game looking like he just wanted to be someplace else. Could you imagine Unitis, Montana, or Starr playing a game like that? You simply can't be labeled "great" if you can't win outdoors and you can't get past game two of the playoffs. Manning had a chance to shut people like me up Sunday and he failed miserably.

Oh and Munoz wasn't the greatest tackle ever, Forrest Gregg was.

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by Mutaman

Could you imagine Unitis, Montana, or Starr playing a game like that? You simply can't be labeled "great" if you can't win outdoors and you can't get past game two of the playoffs. Manning had a chance to shut people like me up Sunday and he failed miserably.

1986, Giants and the Niners in the Meadowlands. Joe Montana starting for the Niners. Giants win game 49-3.

A Joe Montana led team in the playoffs scores three points.

It happens to the best of them.