Lidle traded

[RosieRed]

Originally Posted by Puffy

Does that mean you like this trade? And if so, why? Because the Reds need lefties or because you think this particular lefty has a future?

I was never a fan of Lidle and am so not sad to see him go - but the return seems to me to be minor league fodder, kinda a way to fill up minor league rosters and nothing else. Of course I am only basing that on the numbers I see from them, but neither Wilson (23 and in low A) nor Moran (no power, no walks, steals bases at 72% clip) impresses me much intially.

You weren't addressing me with this, but I'm going to answer anyway.

I like the trade, not so much because of the return, but just because Lidle wasn't going to be here next year, was not doing well, and so why spend any more time with him? Trading him opens a spot for someone else, and we need to see what someone else can do. Even if that someone else is Hancock, I'd rather give him a chance than to keep running Lidle out there.

As for the actual return, I don't think it's that bad. You never know which prospects are going to turn into something, and we all know we need some pitching. Wilson could turn into a lefty reliever and be with the club for a few years; that wouldn't be bad at all. Should neither prospect amount to anything, at the least we're saving a little money by not paying Lidle the rest of the year.

[savafan]

Originally Posted by Red Leader

If everyone in the Reds front office was given excuses and the benefit of the doubt on every move, we'd get absolutely no where. Until I see DanO do something drastic (like clear payroll by parting with Graves, Casey, Griffey) or get a very high grade prospect (like a Claussen) in trade, I'm going to keep considering him a bad GM for this franchise.

I wasn't saying DanO is a good GM, or a bad GM for that matter. All I was saying is that we don't know that there wasn't something else in the plans here and the Phillies stepped in and blocked it.

[flyer85]

DanO doesn't have much to hang his hat on to this point. Last years draft, even with the blowup of Wagner, still is looking good with the pitching of Pauly and Gardner. I think DanO's first draft, heavy on HS pitchers is highly questionable for the future.

His major trade is dealing away Reitsma and his major free agent acquisition was Lidle. Rather unimpressive so far.

He can salvage it by clearing some payroll(does he have the cajones to trade Casey) in the fofseason and locking Dunn up for 4-5 years.

Personally I am not hopeful, so prove me wrong DanO.

[Kc61]

This trade deadline, isn't it funny that the only two guys O'Brien traded were the two pitchers he acquired himself earlier in the year, Jones and Lidle? Guy has been GM for a year and his moves are cutting loose his own few pickups, while holding onto Jimbo's guys (except Reitsma).

[princeton]

Originally Posted by Puffy

Does that mean you like this trade? And if so, why? Because the Reds need lefties or because you think this particular lefty has a future?
.

it means at least he's not righthanded. A finesse RHPer in A ball would really be valueless.

But even need is secondary here. The big part of the deal is that we just saved $900,000 or whatever we still owed Lidle.

[Stormy]

Originally Posted by RosieRed

You weren't addressing me with this, but I'm going to answer anyway.

I like the trade, not so much because of the return, but just because Lidle wasn't going to be here next year, was not doing well, and so why spend any more time with him? Trading him opens a spot for someone else, and we need to see what someone else can do. Even if that someone else is Hancock, I'd rather give him a chance than to keep running Lidle out there.

As for the actual return, I don't think it's that bad. You never know which prospects are going to turn into something, and we all know we need some pitching. Wilson could turn into a lefty reliever and be with the club for a few years; that wouldn't be bad at all. Should neither prospect amount to anything, at the least we're saving a little money by not paying Lidle the rest of the year.

That's a nice post, and it reflects my take on the transaction as well. However, I also share Puffy's (and Redleader's) perspective, which is that moves like this are peripheral.

The Reds are a team which will likely need to find 4-5 viable major league ready starting and bullpen arms before next season, if they are to improve upon arguably the league's pitching staff. In DanO's brief tenure we have yet to see him bring in anyone who can fill even one of those spots by 2005. Likewise, we have a number of high salaried players (scheduled to make even more in 2005), having fine seasons, who have not been successfully moved (or to our knowledge even shopped). Perhaps he'll manage to move a few of these in the offseason, but the early tendency is towards status quo stagnation in dealing with the bigger issues. If we don't move any of the aforementioned, then we head into 2005, again, with over *half* of our payroll going towards 3-4 players, with increases due to others, and with no extra payroll room earmarked to address the real areas of need on the pitching staff. That is a scenario I don't like, nor can I fathom how he has failed to move guys like Wilson (or even Lidle at a time when his value was higher than it is now).

So, I agree with you about this trade. And maybe my obsessive focus on the bigger picture isn't appropriate within a thread where I think DanO just made a decent run-of-the-mill move. However, I can't help but think that the Reds have numerous legitimate trade commodities, necessities and areas of need, and that DanO isn't addressing any of them, *yet.*

[corkedbat]

With Hancock evidently sliding into Lidle's spot, I'd like to see Hudson get a shot at Acevedo's turn when they need a 5th starter, keep Acevedo in the pen and release TVP. I think if you prepare Acevedo for fulltime relief next season and let him build up the MPH's on his fastball he could be one solution to the several bullpen ?'s we have.

Is it too late for DO to throw in Graves and let them keep Senor Cash?

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Kc61

This trade deadline, isn't it funny that the only two guys O'Brien traded were the two pitchers he acquired himself earlier in the year, Jones and Lidle? Guy has been GM for a year and his moves are cutting loose his own few pickups, while holding onto Jimbo's guys (except Reitsma).

Well, considering that both are FA's after the season, what's surprising about that?

We have picked up a great return for both Jones and Lidle, considering how badly Lidle has pitched. And, i assume the PTBNL, is a 40 roster guy who has to clear waivers. It could be worth something.

[princeton]

with this trade, the Reds went from insisting on Hancock-types (major league "ready") 10 days ago to accepting guys that are a long way off

the price on LaRue, Wilson and Jimenez is surely a lot higher.

[jmcclain19]

Funny comment from Jayson Stark about the trade. That the Phillies had to do something, to have someone fill that fifth starter role, but it was debatable whether or not Lidle was someone who could do that

Also said Pat Burrell is out for the season. Not a good day if your a Phillies fan

[airalex]

Originally Posted by jmcclain19

Funny comment from Jayson Stark about the trade. That the Phillies had to do something, to have someone fill that fifth starter role, but it was debatable whether or not Lidle was someone who could do that

Also said Pat Burrell is out for the season. Not a good day if your a Phillies fan

I thought he was part of the trade :mhcky21:

[princeton]

Originally Posted by airalex

I thought he was part of the trade :mhcky21:

right, in a couple of days after he clears waivers

[corkedbat]

Originally Posted by airalex

I thought he was part of the trade :mhcky21:

He is, but he's going on the DL so he has to be listed as a PTBNL until he comes off. :mhcky21:

[Cali Red]

My question is what spin will O' Brien have on this trade? Was it that he is giving up on the rest of the sesaon (Wild Card), and continuing to build towards the future, or was it like the previous Philly trade where he said they weren't going to trade Jones but Philadelphia made them an over-whelming offer?

Is this one of those over-wheming offers?

[RosieRed]

Originally Posted by Stormy

The Reds are a team which will likely need to find 4-5 viable major league ready starting and bullpen arms before next season, if they are to improve upon arguably the league's pitching staff. In DanO's brief tenure we have yet to see him bring in anyone who can fill even one of those spots by 2005.

I hear what you're saying, and I don't really disagree. But, my jury is still out on Bong and Hancock -- I wouldn't at all be surprised if Bong is in the bullpen next year, and I think he could do okay there. The same goes for Hancock, though I know less about him. So, potentially, those are two arms for next year. Starting pitching ... well, that's a whole other story.

Originally Posted by Stormy

So, I agree with you about this trade. And maybe my obsessive focus on the bigger picture isn't appropriate within a thread where I think DanO just made a decent run-of-the-mill move. However, I can't help but think that the Reds have numerous legitimate trade commodities, necessities and areas of need, and that DanO isn't addressing any of them, *yet.*

Nothing wrong with focusing on the bigger picture, especially when the bigger picture doesn't look so bright right now. Compared to the bigger picture, this trade is definitely minutia.