Alan Keyes Disowns His Daughter

[zombie-a-go-go]

Originally Posted by Puffy

I don't think its right that a family disowns a child. Ever. And I surely don't think its correct for a well off family to cut off paying a child's tuition in college just because you disagree with their lifestyle choice.

I'm not saying that I agree with what Keyes is doing, only that I can understand why a highly religious person would do what he is doing. I can even see how he thinks that what he's doing is the right thing. To him, her sexuality is more important than her GPA or anything else - he believes that nothing less than her mortal soul is in peril, and he would do whatever he can to save it - because he is her father, and he loves her.

Of he could just be a punk doing this because his daughter's making him look bad.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by zombie-a-go-go

I'm not saying that I agree with what Keyes is doing, only that I can understand why a highly religious person would do what he is doing. I can even see how he thinks that what he's doing is the right thing. To him, her sexuality is more important than her GPA or anything else - he believes that nothing less than her mortal soul is in peril, and he would do whatever he can to save it - because he is her father, and he loves her.

Of he could just be a punk doing this because his daughter's making him look bad.

You have hit on the very important dynamic that is going on here, zombie. A very fair view of this event.

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by zombie-a-go-go

I'm not saying that I agree with what Keyes is doing, only that I can understand why a highly religious person would do what he is doing. I can even see how he thinks that what he's doing is the right thing. To him, her sexuality is more important than her GPA or anything else - he believes that nothing less than her mortal soul is in peril, and he would do whatever he can to save it - because he is her father, and he loves her.

Of he could just be a punk doing this because his daughter's making him look bad.

I'm sorry Z - I wasn't directing that at you or anyone else, and I do understand the reasoning behind his decision.

All I'm saying is that a family should never do that to a child. Thats probably because of how I was raised (and never seeing a situation where a child should be cut off - although we are catholic and one of my siblings happens to be gay, and no, my parents would never, ever treat him any different than they would treat me or my sister based on his homosexuality). But there could be reasons to cut a child off - drugs, etc. I just don't see sexuality as ever being one of those reasons. I can't see it. My brother is my brother and as long as he is happy, well, he can live how he chooses.

[traderumor]

But there could be reasons to cut a child off - drugs, etc. I just don't see sexuality as ever being one of those reasons. I can't see it. My brother is my brother and as long as he is happy, well, he can live how he chooses.

With that last statement, couldn't you say the same thing about someone who is "happily" addicted to drugs? In other words, you recognize that drug addiction is something that might cause a parent to make a decision to "cut off" a child for their own good, and someone with Keyes' worldview would see the lifestyle his daughter is leading resulting in the same end, thus analogous and requiring drastic action. Not saying I agree, just saying I can see where Alan Keyes, the parent is coming from in the way zombie described.

[M2]

What we've got here is a perfect example of why "Christian" has become a loaded term in our society.

Alan Keyes, whom I consider a first-class hate monger, is adhering to what he considers "Christian" beliefs. Others think the "Christian" thing to do would be a show of tolerance.

So I can understand why some folks think Keyes is being a stand-up guy here. Me, I think it's a giant cautionary tale that this guy is willing to cannibalize his own daughter (for her politics and for having a backbone as much as for her sexuality).

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by traderumor

With that last statement, couldn't you say the same thing about someone who is "happily" addicted to drugs? In other words, you recognize that drug addiction is something that might cause a parent to make a decision to "cut off" a child for their own good, and someone with Keyes' worldview would see the lifestyle his daughter is leading resulting in the same end, thus analogous and requiring drastic action. Not saying I agree, just saying I can see where Alan Keyes, the parent is coming from in the way zombie described.

Only if you're reading in words which I didn't write.

If a child is heavily addicted to drugs, stealing from you to get their next score, not working but living off their parents and using said money on drugs, then yes, I could see cutting him off.

What I didn't say was that if a child ever uses drugs then a parent should disown them. What I didn't say was that drug addiction is the cause for disowning a child. What I didn't do was analogize. I used one sentence to briefly say that there might be a time where a parent would be wise to cut off a child, thats all I did. I am not arrogant enough to say "never" or "always" - so I threw that little disclaimer in there. Thats all. Oh, and I don't mean to say that anyone here is arrogant enough to do that - just saying those are big words to use.

Please don't read things into what I write. You're not in my head, and frankly, you don't want to be in my head (its pretty scary in there - ahhh, who am I kidding, its a fright show in there :RedinDC: ).

[MWM]

If any of my kids ever became a Cubs fan or a Browns fan, I'd cut them off. But that's about the only thing I can think of that could lead me to such drastic measures. :RedinDC:

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Puffy

Only if you're reading in words which I didn't write.

If a child is heavily addicted to drugs, stealing from you to get their next score, not working but living off their parents and using said money on drugs, then yes, I could see cutting him off.

What I didn't say was that if a child ever uses drugs then a parent should disown them. What I didn't say was that drug addiction is the cause for disowning a child. What I didn't do was analogize. I used one sentence to briefly say that there might be a time where a parent would be wise to cut off a child, thats all I did. I am not arrogant enough to say "never" or "always" - so I threw that little disclaimer in there. Thats all. Oh, and I don't mean to say that anyone here is arrogant enough to do that - just saying those are big words to use.

Please don't read things into what I write. You're not in my head, and frankly, you don't want to be in my head (its pretty scary in there - ahhh, who am I kidding, its a fright show in there :RedinDC: ).

I was responding to what you did say, but was trying to show that the line you drew between drug addiction and matters of sexuality would not be drawn by someone with Keyes' worldview. They are both similarly destructive lifestyles, again within the context of certain worldviews.

I was the one making the analogy, not sure what you're defending yourself from

Don't worry, I have no desire to "get inside your head."

[flyer85]

I could never "disown" my daughter. I might be highly disappointed in her behavior and would be more than willing to stop any financial gifts but I would never stop speaking to her or loving her.

As far as paying for college it is more than within a parents rights not to subsidize their childrens college choice. When the decision on a college choice comes in a couple of years I will let my daughter know which institutions she may attend that I would be willing to subsidize. If she chooses to go to a different college she will be paying the tuition on her own.

[traderumor]

Just to clarify, "disowning" is only mentioned in the title of this thread, folks. Dismissing someone from a job and pulling financial support for education is a far cry from refusing to have any kind of relationship with someone, which there is no evidence that this is the case in this piece. He's upset with his child, tolerance is begged for with respect to his daughter's view, yet where it the tolerance for the father's view?

M2,

Tolerance is also a loaded term, just as much as "Christian" is. I'm not a big fan of Alan Keyes, but his behavior, as described in this article, is not much different than the actions of the father in the story of the prodigal son. Apparently, she already spent her inheritance, now its time to fend for herself. Then, if we're talking about tolerance, where is the tolerance for Keyes' parenting choices?

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Don't worry, I have no desire to "get inside your head."

I put a joke in there making fun of myself. I used a smiley as well.

And with that, I leave this conversation.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Puffy

I put a joke in there making fun of myself. I used a smiley as well.

And with that, I leave this conversation.

Sorry I misread your tone in the post. I did get the joke, but the rest sounded like you were offended at how I dovetailed from your post. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[registerthis]

Originally Posted by Redsfaithful

So disowning her shows that he cares. Letting her live her life the way that makes her happy would show that he does not care.

I think I've entered bizarro world.

Maybe he could knock her around a bit, maybe throw her through a window...REALLY show some fatherly love.

What disgusting behavior.

Don't tell me there isn't justice in this world...both Dick Cheney and Alan Keye's daughters turn out to be homosexual? THAT, my friend, is the definition of ironic.

Cheney, at least, seems to accept his daughter and continues to love her, which is more than we can say for Mr. Keyes.

[registerthis]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Just to clarify, "disowning" is only mentioned in the title of this thread, folks. Dismissing someone from a job and pulling financial support for education is a far cry from refusing to have any kind of relationship with someone, which there is no evidence that this is the case in this piece. He's upset with his child, tolerance is begged for with respect to his daughter's view, yet where it the tolerance for the father's view?

So having her fired, pulling financial support he had prevuously promised, kicking her out of the house and refusing to speak with her isn't disowning her? What a strange way to show he loves her.

[RosieRed]

My great-grandmother, may she rest in peace, lived to be 96. We were very close when I was growing up. I was fascinated by her life -- she was born in 1899, and to me, she had seen and lived through *everything* I could imagine.

The most amazing story she told me involved her children. She gave birth to seven of them, but two died because of illness when they were very young. A third died when he was 12, because her 15-year-old son shot him to death. My great-grandmother would always say that was the toughest moment in her life; how could she even look at her 15-year-old, knowing that she lost another child because of him? She didn't want to have anything to do with him. But, as she would say, she soon realized that she couldn't go through life like that, carrying a grudge and resenting him for the rest of time. All it would do was make the rest of her life that much harder, and she already had a hard life. So she forgave him for killing his brother. She would always say to me "I didn't live to be this old without learning how to forgive; it's the most important thing. Forgiveness frees you."

I am always reminded of my great-grandmother when I hear stories about parents disowning their children, or cutting of their children, etc. And I always think that if she could forgive her son for what he did, then there's no real reason other children can't be forgiven for what they've done. (Note: I don't think Keyes' daughter has really "done" anything, but I understand he thinks she has.)

Just my opinion, of course.