10 Killed in Minnesota School Shooting...

[Steve4192]

Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

I am learning to not argue with Liberal ideas.

Man I hope Redsfaithul / Rojo are reading this thread. After some of the political dust-ups I had with those guys, they'll get a kick out of seeing me called out as a bastion of liberal ideas.

[Red Heeler]

Originally Posted by Steve4192

No, but I'm not going to condone some half-arsed political solution that will not work in the real world.

The first thing I'd do is repeal all mandatory sentencing laws. They are nothing more than a band-aid political solution to issues that politicians don't know how to deal with. I'd then get about the business of paroling non-violoent offenders to make room for murderers and rapists.

The second thing I'd do is legalize drugs. That would seriously impact the amount of violent crime associated with the illegal production and distribution of drugs. I'd 'sin tax' the living crap out of the drugs and use the proceeds to fund rehab/recovery programs for users.

As a result, I'd have a lot more prison space available to make sure violent offenders actually serve their sentences. As an added bonus, law enforcement would be freed up to deal with violent criminals rather than wasting their time enforcing the modern equivalent of prohibition.

I would fully support a system similar to the Dutch, where soft drugs (pot) are legalized, but hard drugs (cocaine, heroin, extacy, etc.) are still illegal. Frankly, the War on Drugs has done little to stem pot smoking anyway. When I was in high school in the late '80s, it was easier to get high than it was to get drunk on hard liquor.

I would also go along with reviewing non-violent offender sentences.

However, I would make the posession of an unlicensed firearm, violation of gun safety laws, and any crime committed while in possession of a firearm the equivalent of a violent crime.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by CbusRed

You can buy black market cigarrettes? Where the hell at? Im tired of paying almost 4 bucks a pack!

Former WWF Tag Team Champion Dino Bravo was involved in the Canadian cig blackmarket. Got whacked too, right out of the Sopranos.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by Reds/Flyers Fan

Interesting how these episodes always happen in rural or suburban settings. Columbine HS is in Littleton, a well-to-do Denver suburb. And Red Lake is just remote. These never happen in inner city Detroit or Cincinnati, places you'd expect.

That's because it's a regularity in the streets.

I read this article in Sunday's DDN. I found it quite disturbing. It seems alot of today's youth find an outlet for their anger by taking a route (guns) that ends up being deadly.

Teen-age bravado, war of words can lead to deadly, devastating results

By Kelli Wynn

Dayton Daily News


DAYTON — The fight would be in the 3100 block of Prescott Avenue, and Mike Goodner Stewart and two of his teen friends decided they needed more backup.

So Stewart, only 17, called his half brother Kelly "Donell" Goodner, another 17-year-old.

Goodner got the call and immediately left his Trotwood residence, taking the four-mile, 10-minute drive to Dayton to be by his half-brother's side.

That decision would leave Goodner in a local hospital being treated for at least one shotgun blast that ripped through his stomach and has left him damaged for life.

This particular sequence of events — a challenge to fight with fists that quickly escalated into a battle involving weapons — worries community members concerned about the sometimes deadly turn teen confrontations can take. The events also provide a glimpse into what can happen when teen-age bravado goes too far.

"They will run to a fight

instead of turning away, said Marlon Shackelford, youth specialist for Omega Baptist Church. "This society teaches us drama is OK. (But) drama leads to trauma."

Donell Goodner ran to the fight, right into the drama. Now, his grandmother said, he's lost his stomach and spleen and is hooked up to a feeding tube.

"He'll be hurting for the rest of his life," said the grandmother, Shirley Robinson.

Robinson also said Goodner and another 17-year-old, Tearonn D. Daniel, knew each other, though she was unsure how well. Daniel died Thursday night after an unidentified gunmen shot six people.

On March 12, Stewart said he was sitting in his living room with a group of acquaintances, boys and girls, when one of the girls' cell phones rang. The voice on the other end demanded to know why the girls were at Stewart's house, why they would hang with a loser and using expletives for emphasis. One of Stewart's 15-year-old male friends overheard the comments, and from there, it was on. Stewart and his crew, the YAK — young and krazy — agreed to meet and fight the people on the other end of the cell phone.

They agreed they would fight with fists.

Stewart and his friends hoped a large crowd would show up so they could start "fighting everybody. We hope they bring a lot of people ...We didn't want to jump nobody. So everything would be fair," Stewart said, recalling the conversation prior to the fight.

Stewart arrived with four others — three teen males and a pregnant female — from the YAK. The group isn't a gang, Stewart said, but a "set" made up of family and close friends. The opponents arrived with eight fighters — five males, three females, and Stewart thought some looked older than 18. They met on Prescott Avenue — ironically, near a church called Spirit of Peace about 10 p.m., and it was on — verbal jousting, posturing, and finally, fists fights.

But at some point, someone flashed a BB gun. Detective Julie Swisher said police found a pellet gun at the scene but don't know who it belonged to.

One of the opponents went to a nearby car, pulled out a shotgun, and started firing. Goodner started running, ran all the way back to Stewart's house. There, Goodner collapsed on an upstairs bed, crying. Stewart soon found out why —his half brother had been shot. The left side of Goodner's leather jacket, worn on top of a hoodie and a couple of T-shirts, looked as if it had been clawed by a cat.

Police have not determined how many times Goodner was shot "because of the type of shot he was shot with...The exact type of shotgun shell will have to be determined by the lab," Swisher said.

Robinson said she wasn't surprised her grandson got involved in the fight. "He is protective of his family," Robinson said.

At first, police thought the fight was over a girl, but now say a war of words caused the battle.

"It was about fighting and we got the best of them...so they started shooting," Stewart said.

But the fighting too often spirals into injury and death.

"Young men cannot take the butt whipping" and that's why they use weapons, said Sean Walton, Juvenile Mentoring Project Coordinator for Community Action Partnership. The partnership mentors teens.

"It's not fear of safety. It's fear of embarassment and loss of approval from friends," Walton said. He also noted that some youth who are afraid to be seen as "soft or weak" if they walk away from an argument.

Shackelford added: "They feel they have to save face — you know who I am and if you cross the line, I'm going to get with you. They are scared of the repercussions. If I beat you up with my fists one on one, I'm scared that you might come back and shoot so I might as well shoot you."

Al "Coach" Powell, adjunct Clinical Associate Professor for Stony Brook Health Sciences Center in Stony Brook, NY, said: "When weapons were not plentiful we used our fists and words. Now we use words in order to set up our opportunities to use our weapons."

Robinson said she goes to the hospital every day, right before work, to see her grandson. He once had dreams of becoming a boxer, and was trying to get his GED. She said Goodner's distraught mother is trying to cope with the tragedy.

"Donell is a loving little boy," Robinson said. "I wish Donell wouldn't have went because of the outcome...I used to tell him all the time, don't fight because these kids are crazy, they will hurt you out here."

[Redsfaithful]

Originally Posted by Steve4192

No, but I'm not going to condone some half-arsed political solution that will not work in the real world.

The first thing I'd do is repeal all mandatory sentencing laws. They are nothing more than a band-aid political solution to issues that politicians don't know how to deal with. I'd then get about the business of paroling non-violoent offenders to make room for murderers and rapists.

The second thing I'd do is legalize drugs. That would seriously impact the amount of violent crime associated with the illegal production and distribution of drugs. I'd 'sin tax' the living crap out of the drugs and use the proceeds to fund rehab/recovery programs for users.

As a result, I'd have a lot more prison space available to make sure violent offenders actually serve their sentences. As an added bonus, law enforcement would be freed up to deal with violent criminals rather than wasting their time enforcing the modern equivalent of prohibition.

You're speaking my language.

I'm pretty libertarian when it comes to drugs, prostitution, porn, and sex. The less government involvement the better.

If Pfizer could make billions selling marijuana then it'd be legal. But anyone can grow it, so it's not.

School shootings are a byproduct of having easily accessible firearms. It's fine to argue that the benefits of having the right to bear arms exceed the drawbacks, but don't plead innocence. School shootings don't happen in the UK and there's a reason for that. If guns are everywhere and easily obtainable then people are going to get shot. It's not terribly surprising.

I personally choose not to live my life in fear of armed home robbery so I will not be purchasing a firearm for my personal home defense. I think it's a bit of a shame that others go through life so afraid.

People who watch television news think crime is by far more prevalent than people who get their news from other sources. I wonder if people who watch television news are more likely to buy guns?

The entire debate on gun control reminds me a great deal of the debate on capital punishment. Neither the death penalty nor guns deter crime, but they make people "feel" better. That feeling of security comes at a pretty steep price though, and we paid part of that price in Minnesota on Monday.

[Unassisted]

The shooter was a LiveJournal user, too.

[Reds4Life]

Originally Posted by TRF

If you let the mothers of this country vote on guns, they would be a memory.

It’s a good thing we have the 2nd amendment then, isn’t it?

[TC81190]

Note to self:

When I have kids, they are getting HOMESCHOOLED.

[Red Thunder]

How exactly do you propose achieving this goal of 'no guns'?

There are millions of guns already spread throughout the US population. A firearms ban would stop any new weapons from entering the pool (at least via legal means) but would do nothing about the millions of guns already in circulation.

I guess you have to start at some point although it might take decades to show a considerable statistical improvement. I wonder if Amercians are generally much more brutal than for example Europeans so that they feel the need to defend themselves even with weapons against each other. Logic: I need a weapon because my neighbor (or anyone else) can also legally purchase one.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Reds4Life

It’s a good thing we have the 2nd amendment then, isn’t it?

Tell that to those kids mothers.

Article [XVIII].

Section 1. After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited.

Dumb amendments can be repealed.

We can allow African Americans and Women to vote too.

But keep touting an amendment that only made sense in the 1700's.

The Founding fathers never meant for the constitution to be rigid document. It was meant to be a living document able to adjust to the times. The subsequent Bill of Rights proves that. At times amendments are needed. Isn't it time we realized Britain isn't coming back? Isn't it time we realized that the government is not our enemy, and even if they were, how much good could a local militia do against tanks? isn't it time we make sure our government does right by it's citizens and it's future through the democratic process, and the evolution of society. And for God's sake, what does owning a gun have to do with any of that?

[Reds4Life]

Originally Posted by TRF

The Founding fathers never meant for the constitution to be rigid document.

The very purpose of a Constitution IS to provide rigidity; it safeguards the rights of citizens from being stripped away on the emotional whims of the majority

Edit: BTW, it's amendment, not ammendment

[Johnny Footstool]

The very purpose of a Constitution IS to provide rigidity; it safeguards the rights of citizens from being stripped away on the emotional whims of the majority

The current administration doesn't seem to agree.

[CbusRed]

If guns kill people....
Then I blame my pencil for spelling errors...


just a thought.

[Reds4Life]

Originally Posted by CbusRed

If guns kill people....
Then I blame my pencil for spelling errors...


just a thought.

And blame auto makers for all the deaths in automobile crashes each year.

[Redsfaithful]

Originally Posted by CbusRed

If guns kill people....
Then I blame my pencil for spelling errors...


just a thought.

Knives are potentially lethal as well. But, unlike guns, they have other purposes and also don't make it easy to kill multiple people in a short amount of time.

Of course I'm just repeating what others have said in this thread already.

The automobile thing always gets tossed out there Reds4Life and it's a ridiculous comparison unless you honestly think guns have the same profound positive impact on society that automobiles do.