Chris Reitsma

[Mutaman]

Originally Posted by Austin Kearns

He wasn't simply given away for nothing.

Also it simply wasn't about the money.

He was given away for nothing, and it was all about money.

[deltachi8]

They traded a guy who they projected as a middle reliever for two guys they projected as plus starters. I didnt have a problem with the trade then, and I dont now.

We all know the Reds have to develop starting pitching if they ever wish to be competitive. They traded a reliver who has much more value on a winning team for two arms they felt they could develop as starters.

Bong is injured so the jury is out and Bubba is now making progress as a closer. Even if Bong becomes a fairly effective Lefty out of the pen and Bubba a decent closer/short reliver, its a trade worth doing.

Without Reitsma the Reds are not very good, with him the last two years, they still are not real good. So, save a bit of jack and take a chance on two young arms.

[WVPacman]

I always thought that trading Reitsma away was a big mistake.. yes the guy had some bad outings but the guy can pitch and he would have made are starting rotation alot better than it is now.I wish we could get him back some how or another Reitsma was always one of my favorites and I always thought he had good talent and still should be pitching for the Reds.

[Aronchis]

Originally Posted by Mutaman

He was given away for nothing, and it was all about money.

It is? 900k then 1.5 mill? That isn't over money, but trying to get starting pitching. DanO's first trade appears to not be leaning at those ends however and that is the reason why people complain. Nelson seems to "let go" much like Gagne in the Bullpen making himself much more effective over a 1-2 inning span.

[Ravenlord]

Bubba Nelson
Age	Level	ERA	IP	K/BB	BB/9	K/9	H/9	HR/9	WHIP
22	AA	4.08	53	2.92	2.04	5.94	10.36	0.85	1.38
22	AAA	7.09	59.2	1.73	3.92	6.79	11.16	1.81	1.68
23	AA	3.78	16.2	4.00	2.70	10.80	8.10	0.54	1.20

Jung Bong
Age	Level	ERA	IP	K/BB	BB/9	K/9	H/9	HR/9	WHIP
24	RK	12.00	3	1.50	6.00	9.00	9.00	9.00	1.67
24	AAA	5.82	94.1	2.10	2.96	6.20	11.26	1.24	1.58
24	CIN	4.70	15.1	1.10	5.87	6.46	9.98	1.76	1.76
25	DL

the Reitsma you're seeing now in Atlanta, you wouldn't see in Cincinnati. the Reds developmental staff is inept incarnate. had Nelson and Bong stayed in Atlanta last year, they would have been fine. never mind that Bong at the time was considered a 4/5 rotation starter or a good BP candidate. BA called Nelson 'a stud' at the time of the trade. oh yeah, Nelson's current success is because he figured out the Reds developmental staff are idiots.

[max venable]

Originally Posted by deltachi8

They traded a guy who they projected as a middle reliever for two guys they projected as plus starters. I didnt have a problem with the trade then, and I dont now.

We all know the Reds have to develop starting pitching if they ever wish to be competitive. They traded a reliver who has much more value on a winning team for two arms they felt they could develop as starters.

Bong is injured so the jury is out and Bubba is now making progress as a closer. Even if Bong becomes a fairly effective Lefty out of the pen and Bubba a decent closer/short reliver, its a trade worth doing.

Without Reitsma the Reds are not very good, with him the last two years, they still are not real good. So, save a bit of jack and take a chance on two young arms.

Here's the thing for me: I would always be very wary about trading for pitchers or trading pitcher to the Braves. They're too good at evaluating pitching talent. How often do you see a P get traded from the Braves that turns out to be any good? And conversely, how often do you see a pitcher get traded to the Braves and then he gets good (or good again ala Mike Hampton)? I would almost never want to trade pitchers with the Braves.

[Team Clark]

Ws.. Nah. Todd did not say anything that has not been discussed on this board in great detail. Every year there is always a soap opera or two in baseball that all players discuss. Right now the Reds are one of the topics. A lot of players from a lot of teams did not expect the Reds to play so poorly. Jones and I also talked about the Mets and their up and ndown pattern. Just talkin's baseball.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Austin Kearns

You can take pitchers for the Braves. Look at Marquis and Wainright who have both blossomed since leaving the Braves.

To say nothing about Jason Schmidt.

[Ravenlord]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

To say nothing about Jason Schmidt.

or Odalis Perez.

[4256 Hits]

[QUOTE=RavenlordNelson's current success is because he figured out the Reds developmental staff are idiots.[/QUOTE]

Or it could be small sample size!

[deltachi8]

I think it has much more to do with what an orginzation does with a pitcher AFTER they obtain him from the Braves and vice-versa.

[Mutaman]

Originally Posted by Aronchis

It is? 900k then 1.5 mill? That isn't over money, but trying to get starting pitching. DanO's first trade appears to not be leaning at those ends however and that is the reason why people complain. Nelson seems to "let go" much like Gagne in the Bullpen making himself much more effective over a 1-2 inning span.

I'm all for getting more pitching. It ought to be the number one priority. But you don't give away one of the few good arms in your organization for pitching. You trade outfielders and infielders to get more pitching. Why is this so complicated?

[Ravenlord]

which would you rather have?

a guy who projects for middle relief.
or
a guy who projects as a 4 starter or middle reliever, and a guy who projects as a number 2 or 3 starter or closer

[deltachi8]

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

which would you rather have?

a guy who projects for middle relief.
or
a guy who projects as a 4 starter or middle reliever, and a guy who projects as a number 2 or 3 starter or closer

i think you may have just stated it the best way anyone could have.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

which would you rather have?

a guy who projects for middle relief.

on a bad team
or

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

a guy who projects as a 4 starter or middle reliever, and a guy who projects as a number 2 or 3 starter or closer

on hopefully an improving team.

Ravenlord is right, it was the right idea. To this point it hasn't worked out, but the idea is right.