Don't Trade Randa !

[flyer85]

What is impressive about EE is that he is
1) Underage for where he has played at every step of the way(one of the main predictors for future success)
2) He has shown consistent improvement in plate discipline as he has moved up the ladder.
3) 2005 at age 22 in AAA he has shown a large improvement. BB rate over 10% and SLG% in over .500

BTW, he was putting up better AAA numbers than the Braves super-prospect Andy Marte.

[ochre]

Originally Posted by BadFundamentals

Had a feeling that post would go over about like that.

Please someone tell me what is so impressive about these minor league numbers (Encarnacion):
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/playe...arnacion.shtml

The 30+ doubles were nice but he is basically putting up Joe Randa type numbers but in the minors. I don't disagree that he's a good prospect and has a chance to be solid major leaguer. But don't just toss out an already "solid" major leaguer for a guy who looks as though he might only project to "solid" as opposed to all star level.

Additionally, if the Reds adding an everyday "prospect" to a trade is what it would take to get a legitimate PITCHING prospect or two in return in one of the deals which will no doubt be forthcoming I'd say do it. This team is in such bad need of pitching and again, if Randa wants to stay in Cincy he does things this feast/famine team badly needs.

Randa is not the future.

[westofyou]

His value is at it's pinnacle now. The Reds would be foolish to not use him as a trading chip at trade deadline.

I didn't want to trade my WebVan stock... loved those groceries coming to my house... a great idea, a real keeper....

Flip Randa like a pancake and you might find some berries on the otherside that you weren't expecting.

Here's the best 35+ 3rd baseman since the strike.

RUNS CREATED/GAME             YEAR     DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     OPS      AGE    
1    Tony Fernandez           1999     1.99     7.39     5.40     .089       37   
2    Tony Phillips            1995     1.55     6.73     5.19     .082       36   
3    Wade Boggs               1995     1.48     6.67     5.19     .063       37   
4    Ken Caminiti             1998     1.39     6.48     5.09     .098       35   
5    Gary Gaetti              1995     0.70     5.89     5.19     .075       36   
6    Vinny Castilla           2004     0.50     5.76     5.26     .089       36   
7    Wade Boggs               1996     0.26     5.80     5.55    -.017       38   
8    Gary Gaetti              1996     0.20     5.27     5.06     .038       37   
9    Todd Zeile               2002     -.27     4.76     5.02     .016       36   
10   Cal Ripken               1998     -.58     4.60     5.18    -.052       37   
11   Cal Ripken               1997     -.61     4.52     5.13    -.037       36   
12   Vinny Castilla           2003     -.75     4.40     5.15     .000       35   
13   Gary Gaetti              1997    -1.36     3.76     5.12    -.057       38   
14   Terry Pendleton          1996    -1.95     3.11     5.06    -.126       35   
15   Cal Ripken               2001    -2.00     3.04     5.04    -.126       40

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by ochre

Randa is not the future.

possibly in a different universe.

[savafan]

Okay, I'll go over to the dark side on this one. I like Randa, and I like the leadership that he brings to the team. I also feel that any minor leaguer is an unproven until major league production says otherwise. Look at the at bats wasted on Brandon Larson and Willie Greene. Hopefully, EE doesn't fit into that category, but how will we know? You don't just hand a starting job to a kid without first seeing what he can do at the major league level.

That said, I agree with rdiersin. If Randa enjoys playing here, and it seems like he does, you trade him now and then talk about re-signing him in the offseason.

[BadFundamentals]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

But the guy is 35 yrs. old and has a 1 year contract. Who's to say he'd *want* to come back to the Reds next year? I can see a multiple teams bidding on his services.

His value is at it's pinnacle now. The Reds would be foolish to not use him as a trading chip at trade deadline.

He will be one of those players that I'll think well of if he appears in GABP in an opponents uniform and will get applause from Roy. Class guy.

I hear you ....with him it is all about what he "wants" to do as well. If he doesn't WANT to stay in Cincy then it's a no brainer, trade him. But if you land on a guy like Randa with the solid, steady game and intangibles he has and he WANTS to stay in Cincy there is no reason to dump him just because he's a one year deal veteran.

Has anyone seen alot of Encarnacion live? He is certainly NOT a speed guy and NOT going to be a big HR guy. He looks to project to maybe a .280+ guy with maybe 30+ 2Bs but again his fielding is still under question. Well Reds have that type offensive player already with better defense and alot of intangibles.

[traderumor]

Another bad comparison. Joe Randa was 22 and in A ball, OPSd .789.

EE was 21 playing in AA and OPSd at .795

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by savafan

Okay, I'll go over to the dark side on this one. I like Randa, and I like the leadership that he brings to the team. I also feel that any minor leaguer is an unproven until major league production says otherwise. Look at the at bats wasted on Brandon Larson and Willie Greene. Hopefully, EE doesn't fit into that category, but how will we know? You don't just hand a starting job to a kid without first seeing what he can do at the major league level.

That said, I agree with rdiersin. If Randa enjoys playing here, and it seems like he does, you trade him now and then talk about re-signing him in the offseason.

So you see Randa in 2005 as a new performance level and not an aberration? Jimmy Haynes in 2002 and Paul Wilson in 2004 come to mind as recent examples of this line of thinking.

[REDREAD]

Bad Fundamentals.. Part of the reason Randa signed here during the winter was due to all the other acquisions the Reds made. He was tired of being in KC, where all they were doing was spinning their wheels. He thought Cincy was on the way up. So even if we wanted to resign Randa, it's doubtful he'd want to return. I'm not saying it's good or bad to resign Randa for next year, just saying that I doubt it's possible.

It's highly likely that we're going to finish in last place with or without Randa. If we can get something useful for Randa, we have to pull the trigger. A half season of Randa when the year is lost just isn't worth it. However, the Reds should not give Randa away. If they are only offered Tim Hummels for him, they should hold him. I expect DanO to get lowballed for Randa, given that it's obvious Allen is going to kick the team into firesale mode. DanO needs to get value for Randa when he does trade him.

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Another bad comparison. Joe Randa was 22 and in A ball, OPSd .789.

EE was 21 playing in AA and OPSd at .795

EE happens to have an OPS of .880(higher than Randa's this year) so far in AAA at the age of 22.

[RFS62]

Not moving Randa this year would be the same kind of mistake we made last year with Graves when we had him shined up all nice and pretty.

EE is the future. I never loathed the Randa signing (sorry Puffy), but I will grow to if we don't move him for something of value.

[ochre]

in·er·tia (-nûrsh)

Resistance or disinclination to motion, action, or change

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

Part of the reason Randa signed here during the winter was due to all the other acquisions the Reds made. He was tired of being in KC, where all they were doing was spinning their wheels. He thought Cincy was on the way up. So even if we wanted to resign Randa, it's doubtful he'd want to return. I'm not saying it's good or bad to resign Randa for next year, just saying that I doubt it's possible.

Sign him, he's going to lead the Reds to the WS in 2006.

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by RFS62

Not moving Randa this year would be the same kind of mistake we made last year with Graves

... and Wilson.

[RFS62]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa

... and Wilson.

Yep.