Foster's comments - Page 4 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

RedsBaron · 06-20-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadFundamentals

actually, I've never seen a bigger group of statheads in one place in my whole life if you want to drop to an insult level.
I wonder if a good portion of you have ever even played organized whiffle ball. Stats support and reveal things but those are actual players/humans out there. Noone is rolling dice or using a random number generator to determine outcomes of games.

John Adams said that "Facts are stubborn things." Yeah, those messy old facts and stats can sure get in the way of a good argument.

BRM · 06-20-2005, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadFundamentals

I wonder if a good portion of you have ever even played organized whiffle ball.

It always seems to come down to this. Accusations that stat guys have obviously never played the game and they must not actually watch games either. This has become a broken record. Just because Steel, Ricardo, woy and the rest of the stat gang bombard you with FACTS doesn't mean they've never played or watched the game of baseball.

flyer85 · 06-20-2005, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRM

doesn't mean they've never played or watched the game of baseball.

baseball, i thought we were talking about basa-ball. Oops, never mind.

BadFundamentals · 06-20-2005, 02:50 PM

If "It always seems to come down to this" chances are there is something to it. Or no, it's a statistical "anomaly" right? It is just pure chance...a random event.

BRM · 06-20-2005, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadFundamentals

If "It always seems to come down to this" chances are there is something to it. Or no, it's a statistical "anomaly" right? It is just pure chance...a random event.

I think it more represents someone "grasping at straws" after being proven wrong...again.

vic715 · 06-20-2005, 02:57 PM

Leadingoff is the perfect place for Dunn. He strikesout so much that you really don't want him in a position where he has to drive in runs. If I'm an opposing pitcher I'd almost pitch around guys to get to him.On the other hand he does walk a ton and he has better than average speed so if he can be 5th in the league in runs scored from the 6 hole thEn imagine what he can do leadingoff.
Just an opinion

ochre · 06-20-2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadFundamentals

actually, I've never seen a bigger group of statheads in one place in my whole life if you want to drop to an insult level.
I wonder if a good portion of you have ever even played organized whiffle ball. Stats support and reveal things but those are actual players/humans out there. Noone is rolling dice or using a random number generator to determine outcomes of games.

when all else fails, ad hominem away.

It would appear, yet again, that we have reached an impasse.

We should try to find a premise that all parties can agree upon and embark upon our debate from there. It will be jolly good fun.

I'll start out with a foundation premise, other's can make suggestions about it, or provide a premise of their own. Once we all agree on a particular premise we can begin to make arguments, supported by fact and in the end our well founded inferences and deductions should allow us to reach a common ground.

My initial premise:
The goal in a baseball game (for simplicity sake defined as a regulation 9 inning game) is to score more runs than your opponent given 27 outs per side.

2001MUgrad · 06-20-2005, 03:00 PM

So now it looks like everyone wants to bat Dunn second?? Why not first??

Does anyone here actually have any idea about Milley or or reasoning?? If so I would like to hear it. Everyone is quick to blame Miley for Dunn. Its like Foster says his job is NOT to WALK it is to drive runs in. He strikes out so much because he looks for a walk so often. The way Dunn chokes in the clutch it wouldn't surprise me if Miley doesn't bat him 5th and 6th to try to take some of the pressure off Dunn.

Dunn is going to be due a pretty big raise after this year. Does $7 or $8 + million a year need to go to a guy that Walks 1st, strikesout second, and homers third?? You can save a lot of money and go with a Freel type get a little less OB% and spend the rest on pitching if OB% is the main object and Dunn is a #2 hitter.

ochre · 06-20-2005, 03:06 PM

I like hitting him second because we have a couple of high OBP options to bat in front of him (I'd lean toward Freel, with Lopez hitting third). The advantage to having Dunn hit second is that he will get a lot of opportunities to hit with a runner on (lets say 39% of the time). That's where his strong SLG comes into play. With a runner on teams tend to pitch carefully to Dunn, but with a solid hitter(s) behind him like Lopez, Griffey and Casey, they won't really want to walk him all that often, so he's going to see some fastballs.

Leading off, he will bat after the pitcher quite a bit. Not the ideal spot to take advantage of his power if you ask me.

wheels · 06-20-2005, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ochre

My initial premise:
The goal in a baseball game (for simplicity sake defined as a regulation 9 inning game) is to score more runs than your opponent given 27 outs per side.

Only at certain times because some runs are more valuable than others.

BRM · 06-20-2005, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheels

Only at certain times because some runs are more valuable than others.

NO, not the old donut argument again!!!

Joseph · 06-20-2005, 03:08 PM

George Foster for Manager?

MartyFan · 06-20-2005, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph

George Foster for Manager?

Hardly....but I would be all about Tom Browning for pitching coach

RedsBaron · 06-20-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ochre

My initial premise:
The goal in a baseball game (for simplicity sake defined as a regulation 9 inning game) is to score more runs than your opponent given 27 outs per side.

You are going too fast!

RedsBaron · 06-20-2005, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2001MUgrad

Does $7 or $8 + million a year need to go to a guy that Walks 1st, strikesout second, and homers third??

I'll post these stats (one poster here may want to cover his eyes-stats are incoming!):
Dunn has an OBP of .398, 11th in the NL.
Dunn has a SPCT of .565, 5th in the NL.
Dunn has an OPS of .963, 6th in the NL.

06-20-2005, 02:50 PM	#49
BadFundamentals Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 833	Re: Foster's comments If "It always seems to come down to this" chances are there is something to it. Or no, it's a statistical "anomaly" right? It is just pure chance...a random event.

06-20-2005, 02:57 PM	#51
vic715 Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: lake city florida Posts: 794	Re: Foster's comments Leadingoff is the perfect place for Dunn. He strikesout so much that you really don't want him in a position where he has to drive in runs. If I'm an opposing pitcher I'd almost pitch around guys to get to him.On the other hand he does walk a ton and he has better than average speed so if he can be 5th in the league in runs scored from the 6 hole thEn imagine what he can do leadingoff. Just an opinion __________________ "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser."

06-20-2005, 03:00 PM	#53
2001MUgrad Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SE Of the NC Blue Ridge Mtns. Posts: 1,462	Re: Foster's comments So now it looks like everyone wants to bat Dunn second?? Why not first?? Does anyone here actually have any idea about Milley or or reasoning?? If so I would like to hear it. Everyone is quick to blame Miley for Dunn. Its like Foster says his job is NOT to WALK it is to drive runs in. He strikes out so much because he looks for a walk so often. The way Dunn chokes in the clutch it wouldn't surprise me if Miley doesn't bat him 5th and 6th to try to take some of the pressure off Dunn. Dunn is going to be due a pretty big raise after this year. Does $7 or $8 + million a year need to go to a guy that Walks 1st, strikesout second, and homers third?? You can save a lot of money and go with a Freel type get a little less OB% and spend the rest on pitching if OB% is the main object and Dunn is a #2 hitter.

06-20-2005, 03:06 PM	#54
ochre Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,266	Re: Foster's comments I like hitting him second because we have a couple of high OBP options to bat in front of him (I'd lean toward Freel, with Lopez hitting third). The advantage to having Dunn hit second is that he will get a lot of opportunities to hit with a runner on (lets say 39% of the time). That's where his strong SLG comes into play. With a runner on teams tend to pitch carefully to Dunn, but with a solid hitter(s) behind him like Lopez, Griffey and Casey, they won't really want to walk him all that often, so he's going to see some fastballs. Leading off, he will bat after the pitcher quite a bit. Not the ideal spot to take advantage of his power if you ask me. __________________ 4009

06-20-2005, 03:08 PM	#57
Joseph Tired of talk. Win! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8,122	Re: Foster's comments George Foster for Manager? __________________ Championships for MY teams in my lifetime: Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90 Chicago Blackhawks - 10 University of Kentucky - 78, 96, 98, 12 Cincinnati Bengals - None Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

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