People on Mets Board saying really dumb things about Adam Dunn

[wheels]

Originally Posted by forfreelin04

A person who is big into stats may not watch the game as closely as a traditonalist

Ummm....Yeah.

I'm gonna, kinda....

Haveta....

Disagree with you on this one.

[cincyinco]

Originally Posted by forfreelin04

Certainly batting average is not a good stat to critque a hitter like Dunn. However, it is a good stat to critique a singles hitter like a Sean Casey. I would prefer to critique Dunn by OPS rather than OBP. Since it combines both his ability to get on base with his ability to hit for extra bases. However, it's sad that this board has become a OBP/OPS/Sabermetrics gala while traditonalist are docked reputation points for leaning towards AVG and RBI's. I've seen both arguements and tried to argue for the traditionalist POV but came up with a clearer picture. They both are important. One is not necessarily better than the other. A person who is big into stats may not watch the game as closely as a traditonalist, but a traditinalist might not pay attention to the new stats that can prove beneficial in critiquing a player. Both are necessary IMO

I agree that both are necessary, but there is more to the entire picture than batting average. And if you're talking about production, batting average does not tell you how much you've produced does it? It just tells you how many times you've averaged a hit in how many AB's. Not whether the run socred, someone got on base, if there was an extra base hit.. etc.

But I do agree that avg and RBI's are important. You need to take the whole picture in, but have try to have an understanding of what everything means.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by forfreelin04

. A person who is big into stats may not watch the game as closely as a traditonalist,

what a bunch of crap.

I'm really tired of hearing I don't watch enough games.

I must not have really spent that 150 bucks for the Season Ticket Package.

[forfreelin04]

Originally Posted by wheels

Ummm....Yeah.

I'm gonna, kinda....

Haveta....

Disagree with you on this one.

I did the book for a college baseball team for an entire season. Believe me when your head is in the stat book your head is not in the game.

So until ya ya........

Know what its like.............

Probably best not to uhhhh comment.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by forfreelin04

I did the book for a college baseball team for an entire season. Believe me when your head is in the stat book your head is not in the game.

So until ya ya........

Know what its like.............

Probably best not to uhhhh comment.

Ok, so you think the "stat guys" are at home charting the games?

So until ya...

Know what it's like....

Probably really best not to uhhhh comment.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by pedro

Ok, so you think the "stat guys" are at home charting the games?

.

Me, I'm busy sharpening my slide rule during games.

[forfreelin04]

Hey maybe your different Rasior. Hats off to you. I can't do both at once. When my mind is concentrating on making sure I jot down every strike ball and ball in play, I have a hard time thinking crtically about what just happened or hasn't yet.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by Raisor

Me, I'm busy sharpening my slide rule during games.

The better to poke "traditionalists" with my pretty.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by forfreelin04

Hey maybe your different Rasior. Hats off to you. I can't do both at once. When my mind is concentrating on making sure I jot down every strike ball and ball in play, I have a hard time thinking crtically about what just happened or hasn't yet.

Why do you assume that people who favor SABR methods are analyzing stats during the games?

[forfreelin04]

Sorry if I "raised" some proverbial pencils from the stat sheet. I would just like to see some the so called "stat guys" raise some details behind their stats. In other words, I would like yous guys to get into a player's head instead of a player's stat line.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by forfreelin04

Hey maybe your different Rasior. Hats off to you. I can't do both at once. When my mind is concentrating on making sure I jot down every strike ball and ball in play, I have a hard time thinking crtically about what just happened or hasn't yet.

I haven't scored a game in years.

I'm not exactly sure what you think a "stat head" is...

[Terry]

For the record, I consider myself a traditionalist and a stat freak. This isn't a case of someone ignoring OPS for the sake of argument. Like Steve Phillips said in the other thread, I'd like to see Adam Dunn adjust his hitting approach, so he's swinging more and driving in more runs, instead of looking at so many pitches. Look at his numbers for that hot period he had last year in late July/early August. That's the type of hitter he can be, and the type of hitter he will be when he takes that kind of approach to hitting.

[RosieRed]

Originally Posted by Terry

Again, thanks for making my point.

The worst thing I've said about him is I wish he'd walk less and drive in more runs. But on this site that's apparently considered bashing. I've posted on two different Adam Dunn threads since I returned to this site and I've been docked something like 70 reputation points over those comments; and the worst thing I said was I prefer RBI's over BB's?? Wow. And now I get docked by Steel, for supposedly "calling him out". LOL ... this is the same guy who use to send me private messages constantly, even threatening me because we have different opinions. If this is what this site has become, and apparently it has, then that's pretty sad. Because this use to be the best Reds site on the internet.

Believe me, I won't comment on Dunn anymore.

If you looked at what I posted, saw those batting average numbers and thought "see, I was right," then you totally missed the point of my post. I agreed with you that his BA was low in those situations. My point was that you absolutely have to look beyond BA in order to understand what Dunn offers. You can ignore the numbers all you want, but doing so doesn't change the numbers.

Why do you want Dunn to walk less? What would that accomplish?

You also offer no response to what I said about RBI: How do you suggest Dunn go about getting more RBI? It's not as simple as "hit the ball more" or "put the ball in play" or "don't walk as much". Example: Sean Casey, who has a .320 BA, is definitely not prone to Ks, and has been batting third in the lineup most of the year, has fewer RBI than Dunn. RBI is a team dependent stat. When Dunn comes up to bat with no one on base, the only person he can drive in is himself.

You shouldn't feel like you can't comment on Dunn or give your opinion on him or anything else. It would just be nice if there were some explanation behind your views.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by forfreelin04

I did the book for a college baseball team for an entire season. Believe me when your head is in the stat book your head is not in the game.

It better be or else your stats aren't going to be very accurate.

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by Chip R

It better be or else your stats aren't going to be very accurate.

That's why I love espn.com. They do my game scoring for me