Reds Win Share Leaders

[CySeymour]

According to the Hardball Times, Dunn leads the Reds in Win Shares in games played through June. Dunn leads the team with 13 Win Shares. Lopez is tied with Griffey and Randa for second with 11. The Red with the fewest? Eric Milton of course. He ended June with -2 Win Shares.

1 NL A Dunn 13
2 NL F Lopez 11
3 NL K Griffey 11
4 NL J Randa 11
5 NL R Freel 8
6 NL J LaRue 7
7 NL S Casey 7
8 NL W Pena 4
9 NL R Aurilia 4
10 NL J Valentin 3
11 NL A Kearns 3
12 NL D Weathers 2
13 NL K Mercker 2
14 NL M Belisle 2
15 NL A Harang 2
16 NL J Romano 1
17 NL R Keisler 1
18 NL B Claussen 1
19 NL J Cruz 1
20 NL T Coffey 1
21 NL D Jimenez 1
22 NL B Shackelfor0
23 NL D Sardinha 0
24 NL K Kelly 0
25 NL L Lopez 0
26 NL R Olmedo 0
27 NL B Weber 0.0 -0.4 0.0 1 -0.297 -1 0
28 NL E Encarnacio 0
29 NL E Ramirez 0
30 NL J Valentine 0
31 NL L Hudson 0
32 NL R Stone 0
33 NL R Wagner 0
34 NL W Bergolla -1
35 NL D Graves -1
36 NL P Wilson -1
37 NL R Ortiz -1
38 NL E Milton -2

[Mario-Rijo]

This is the stat that I had been trying to remember for awhile now. It shows just how much more important everyday players are than singular pitchers. I recalled a telecast on ESPN I believe once, where they cited this stat to show how much more important to the Sox Manny Ramirez was than Pedro. Of course your pitchers mean alot individually as a whole if that makes sense. So you certainly need pitching everyday however you need the same Hitters/Fielders everyday. It's quite an interesting stat to cite when discussing potential trades for pitching.

Simply put Adam Dunn is very important to this teams success, not as important as the entire staff but moreso than any individual pitcher! So when people offer pitching for him they better come w/ quality or not come at all.

[buckeyenut]

Originally Posted by WeberTime

This is the stat that I had been trying to remember for awhile now. It shows just how much more important everyday players are than singular pitchers. I recalled a telecast on ESPN I believe once, where they cited this stat to show how much more important to the Sox Manny Ramirez was than Pedro. Of course your pitchers mean alot individually as a whole if that makes sense. So you certainly need pitching everyday however you need the same Hitters/Fielders everyday. It's quite an interesting stat to cite when discussing potential trades for pitching.

Simply put Adam Dunn is very important to this teams success, not as important as the entire staff but moreso than any individual pitcher! So when people offer pitching for him they better come w/ quality or not come at all.

This is completely true, until the playoffs. In the playoffs, one pitcher can be far more important than any hitter. It is why STL is great in regular season and struggles in post season.

[achilles]

What's a win share?

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by achilles

What's a win share?

achilles, is there a reason you've completely avoided posting on the game thread but focused on posting on just about every other thread from the past two days?

Your behavior is making this board impossible to read. I might suggest that you focus on a thread or two you're actually interested in.

[OSURedLeg]

Can somebody please explain the statistics that go into figuring this out? I'm perplexed that they now believe that a player's significance to his team can be summed up in one number - however, I'd love to know how they do it.

[achilles]

Originally Posted by SteelSD

achilles, is there a reason you've completely avoided posting on the game thread but focused on posting on just about every other thread from the past two days?

Your behavior is making this board impossible to read. I might suggest that you focus on a thread or two you're actually interested in.

I posted a few times on the game chat topic. I'm sorry if I made the board impossible to read. I just found this chat board. I don't want to make anyone mad, so I will stop posting for the rest of the night.

[jhiller21]

achilles, your numerous posts aren't really contributing anything at all, other than cluttering up the boards. Might I add that most of your responses seem contrived?

[2001MUgrad]

Originally Posted by jhiller21

achilles, your numerous posts aren't really contributing anything at all, other than cluttering up the boards. Might I add that most of your responses seem contrived?

I don't see what the problem is with this guy.. If you don't like what he says don't read it, its that easy.

[2001MUgrad]

Originally Posted by OSURedLeg

Can somebody please explain the statistics that go into figuring this out? I'm perplexed that they now believe that a player's significance to his team can be summed up in one number - however, I'd love to know how they do it.

Its just another stat that means nothing.

I'm glad Dunn hit that Homer tonight, I really am. I'm happy anytime the Reds win. But, give me a break if you expect me to beleive a guy that has hit around .200 all year with RISP has contributed or won or whatever in the hell this stat proves to the Reds victories more so than anyone else. Give me a break.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by 2001MUgrad

Its just another stat that means nothing.

I'm glad Dunn hit that Homer tonight, I really am. I'm happy anytime the Reds win. But, give me a break if you expect me to beleive a guy that has hit around .200 all year with RISP has contributed or won or whatever in the hell this stat proves to the Reds victories more so than anyone else. Give me a break.

http://www.hardballtimes.com/winshares/index.php

That'll give you a look at the statistic and player numbers for each team.

Keep in mind that it's not an inaccurate measure of contribution just because you don't want to believe that it's accurate. The very same metric will show you that Derrek Lee and Albert Pujols are 1st and 2nd respectively in all of baseball in team contribution.

In fact, you won't be able to find a meaningful performance measurement that doesn't demonstrate that Dunn's contributed more Runs to the Reds than any other player on the team.

Oh, and a couple quick questions:

1. If BA with RISP is actually what drives contribution, then why does Sean Casey have pretty much identical RISP RBI numbers while Casey has a nearly 20 more AB with RISP and a RISP BA advantage of over 80 points?

2. Why does Adam Dunn have more RBI with Runners On than Casey even though Casey has over 30 more AB in those situations and a Batting Average about 80 points higher than Dunn?

3. Does base hit type matter or are all base hits created equal?

All valid questions considering your position and all need to be carefully considered. I think you'll find that the right answers will give you a bit more direction in really understanding how players are able to contribute to their ballclubs without needing a .300 Batting Average.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by jhiller21

achilles, your numerous posts aren't really contributing anything at all, other than cluttering up the boards. Might I add that most of your responses seem contrived?

Tha's not necessary at all.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by 2001MUgrad

Its just another stat that means nothing.

I'm glad Dunn hit that Homer tonight, I really am. I'm happy anytime the Reds win. But, give me a break if you expect me to beleive a guy that has hit around .200 all year with RISP has contributed or won or whatever in the hell this stat proves to the Reds victories more so than anyone else. Give me a break.

And I'm sure you did your homework and really researched it out before you came to this enlightened opinion.

[2001MUgrad]

Originally Posted by SteelSD

http://www.hardballtimes.com/winshares/index.php

That'll give you a look at the statistic and player numbers for each team.

Keep in mind that it's not an inaccurate measure of contribution just because you don't want to believe that it's accurate. The very same metric will show you that Derrek Lee and Albert Pujols are 1st and 2nd respectively in all of baseball in team contribution.

In fact, you won't be able to find a meaningful performance measurement that doesn't demonstrate that Dunn's contributed more Runs to the Reds than any other player on the team.

Oh, and a couple quick questions:

1. If BA with RISP is actually what drives contribution, then why does Sean Casey have pretty much identical RISP RBI numbers while Casey has a nearly 20 more AB with RISP and a RISP BA advantage of over 80 points?

2. Why does Adam Dunn have more RBI with Runners On than Casey even though Casey has over 30 more AB in those situations and a Batting Average about 80 points higher than Dunn?

3. Does base hit type matter or are all base hits created equal?

All valid questions considering your position and all need to be carefully considered. I think you'll find that the right answers will give you a bit more direction in really understanding how players are able to contribute to their ballclubs without needing a .300 Batting Average.

I've not had time to study this.. And, I may or may not tomorrow. But the one glaring problem I see with just a quick glance at the list as that it takes pitchers and batters and sticks them in the same group. That's like comparing apples and oranges. It doesn't matter what you pick to set your variables at, but comparing 2 things that aren't comparable would essentially void whatever it is you are comparing and how you are comparing.

[jhiller21]

Originally Posted by MWM

Tha's not necessary at all.

After reading more of them, his posts seem genuine, and I aplogize to achilles. But bringing up every topic from the last 2 days is a bit distracting