Reds vs. Phillies - 9/24/05 - How Long Will Milton Last?

[M2]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

And then Boone proceeded to go on another one of his famous dirt naps as the Marlins shredded the Yanks in the Series. One homer. Sure it was dramatic. But it was one homer.

The Yankees certainly could have used Claussen this season. Now they're barely clinging to their lead and may not even make the postseason.

And a sensible Yankee fan would see the Boone/Claussen deal for what it was--just another step in depleting the Yankee's ability to bargain for trade deadline talent.

Sensible Yankees fans don't care about Brandon Claussen. He was never part of the long range plan for the Bombers. If he hadn't gone to the Reds, he'd have gone somewhere else that winter.

He went away for a guy who delivered the Yankees a moment that's seared permanently into Yankee lore. That's what Yankees fans care about. If we're also happy with the trade, good for us. They win and move on.

[Matt700wlw]

Weathers in to save it.

That's not a relaxing situation

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by M2

Unlike the current Reds GM, Beane would be able to identify three good arms and negotiate the deal.

I don't see the deal on the Beane resume where he has traded a good offensive player for 3 good arms. He has had a bunch of top offensive players(Giambi, Chavez, Tejada, etc). I am missing the trades where he dealt those guards for a group of good arms.

The Beane methodology has been han on to star offensive players or let then walk and get the draft picks.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by M2

Sensible Yankees fans don't care about Brandon Claussen. He was never part of the long range plan for the Bombers. If he hadn't gone to the Reds, he'd have gone somewhere else that winter.

He went away for a guy who delivered the Yankees a moment that's seared permanently into Yankee lore. That's what Yankees fans care about. If we're also happy with the trade, good for us. They win and move on.

Yeah, and the Yanks got demolished in the Series. Ashes in any Yankee fans mouth. Kissing yer sister. Smoking the seeds. Deliver a championship or bugger off is what any Yankee fan I've ever met believes.

Yanks fans and players will probably be watching from their Barcaloungers this postseason. Money's never an object for the Yankees, but talent is never not an object for any team.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by M2

Watching the Reds use four relievers this inning makes me once again wonder if there's anyone who thinks this makes for enjoyable baseball?

You get late into a game and then the managers suck the life out of the park. It's even hard for the home crowd to care after this many bullpen calls. MLB can't ban this sort of thing soon enough.

Yeah. I was telling MWM that Narron was channelling Lloyd McClendon that inning.

I agree with you about Beane being able to get 3 good arms for Dunn. Of course he wouldn't have to cause he'd never sign guys like Ortiz and Milton. Plus I would think Bean would just love a guy like Dunn who brings that high OBP and SLG to the table. He'd probably build a shrine to him and sign him to a long term deal.

Weathers is in. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[flyer85]

wow ... a Tucker sighting

[harangatang]

Michael Tucker is in, beware of the curse of former Reds

[CTA513]

Booo! we wanted a Graves type outing from Weathers!

[Reds Nd2]

Originally Posted by M2

Watching the Reds use four relievers this inning makes me once again wonder if there's anyone who thinks this makes for enjoyable baseball?

You get late into a game and then the managers suck the life out of the park. It's even hard for the home crowd to care after this many bullpen calls. MLB can't ban this sort of thing soon enough.

Sure the fans may hate the down time of so many pitching changes, but I hope your kidding about MLB banning the managers choice of bringing in a relief pitcher.

[M2]

Originally Posted by flyer85

I don't see the deal on the Beane resume where he has traded a good offensive player for 3 good arms. He has had a bunch of top offensive players(Giambi, Chavez, Tejada, etc). I am missing the trades where he dealt those guards for a group of good arms.

I don't see why you'd limit yourself to bats. Beane dealt two big arms this offseason. The Tim Hudson deal fizzled, but the Mark Mulder has been gangbusters.

More importantly, reviewing Beane's track record as a GM do you have any doubt the man has the ability to identify good young pitchers?

[harangatang]

Originally Posted by M2

You get late into a game and then the managers suck the life out of the park. It's even hard for the home crowd to care after this many bullpen calls. MLB can't ban this sort of thing soon enough.

I understand the concern of the entertainment of the fan but a manager needs to be able to give his team the best chance to win. Isn't winning what the fans want most?

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by M2

I don't see why you'd limit yourself to bats. Beane dealt two big arms this offseason. The Tim Hudson deal fizzled, but the Mark Mulder has been gangbusters.

That right ... and he got 1 quality arm for Mulder in Haren(and he was a guy that had done nothing but struggle at the ML level). Calero is a middle releiver slider specialist and Barton may turn out to be special. Having said that, front line starters have a higher trade value than OFs do.

Beane has built his success on drafting anf developing a bunch of players and filling in around those with guys acquired undervalue(either through minor trades or FA sigining.)

The Reds don't have the Hudsons, Mulders, Zitos, Crosby, Blantons, Johnsons, Streets, Swishers, etc to show for there drafting efforts.

[M2]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Yeah, and the Yanks got demolished in the Series. Ashes in any Yankee fans mouth. Kissing yer sister. Smoking the seeds. Deliver a championship or bugger off is what any Yankee fan I've ever met believes.

Yanks fans and players will probably be watching from their Barcaloungers this postseason. Money's never an object for the Yankees, but talent is never not an object for any team.

The Yankees have the luxury of nearly limitless cash. They don't keep projects like Claussen.

I know plenty of Yankees fans and to a person, they'd make the Boone trade again and get a better ump crew for that World Series.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by M2

The Yankees have the luxury of nearly limitless cash. They don't keep projects like Claussen.

I submit that maybe they'd be wise to keep some projects. Not to save money, but to have talent on hand.

The Yanks have become really bad at throwing around their money (does anyone on Earth think the Yankees wouldn't be better off with Claussen pitching in Jaret Wright's spot in the rotation?)

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by harangatang

I understand the concern of the entertainment of the fan but a manager needs to be able to give his team the best chance to win. Isn't winning what the fans want most?

It's one thing to give your team the best chance to win but is he really doing that or just trying not to get second guessed? It's like platooning. How are you ever going to be able to get a left handed hitter out - if you're a right handed pitcher (and vice versa) - if you never get toface him with the game on the line? Narron brings Coffey in. 1st batter hits a double and Narron yanks him. He can't give him the opportunity to get out of a jam? He brings in Shackelford and only lets him pitch to lefties. Then Belisle can only pitch to righties. It's a classic case of overmanaging.