Carson Palmer signs Extension

[westofyou]

You guys still here?

This thing's gonna last longer than Turk Schonert's career.

[savafan]

Originally Posted by SteelSD

But a better rivalry builder woud be if ol' Marv figured out what a defense looked like.

You know Marvin has to know what a defense looks like. I seem to remember he had a pretty good one at Baltimore.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by gonelong

So what? How'd he do the 2nd half?

Those 2 interceptions in the 2nd half didn't help the cause, and neither did the sack Kitna took followed up by his fumble to kill a drive. Kitna took 4 sacks because he can't get through his progressions as fast as Palmer.

The game was a coin-flip before Palmer went down, and Cincy was looking to grab the early advantage. Would the Bengals have won? Nobody knows, but the chasm between Palmer and Kitna is huge, big 1st half out of Kitna nonwithstanding. Palmer ended the season with a 101 QB rating, I can't image Kitna had a better than 70 rating for the game.

I have it DVR'd so I'll check on it tonight.

GL

Here's the thing...

Any case for the "rout" scenario not only includes Carson Palmer staying healthy, but it also includes the assumption that he would have certainly played mistake-free football. Could he have? Maybe. But he could have looked as bad as he did against Pitt the first time around or Cleveland.

Palmer's a great QB. But he's not incapable of performing as did a Jon Kitna (good or bad). I know you know that. But it appears that he's a more mythical beast to others.

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by westofyou

You guys still here?

This thing's gonna last longer than Turk Schonert's career.

You're still here? It's over!

[Heath]

Originally Posted by westofyou

You guys still here?

This thing's gonna last longer than Turk Schonert's career.

How about Jack Thompson, the Throwin' Samoan'



I think this thread has lasted longer than Bengals Run Defense.

[gonelong]

Originally Posted by SteelSD

Here's the thing...

Any case for the "rout" scenario ...

Never made one.

You only need to win by 1. Like I said, it was a coin flip before Palmer went down. It was pretty much a 90/10 deal afterwards, it was only a matter of time before PIT exposed Kitna.

Heck, if you take two pass plays, the one was called for interference and the other was not and swap just those calls the game is likely knotted up or only a score away from it. Those plays were very similar.

I think your working from the assumption that it was Pitts game to lose, I'm not.

GL

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by gonelong

Never made one.

Never said you did. Was commenting on the scenario someone else positioned.

You only need to win by 1. Like I said, it was a coin flip before Palmer went down. It was pretty much a 90/10 deal afterwards, it was only a matter of time before PIT exposed Kitna.

Hmn. I'm not sure how a game that goes to halftime with the home team up by three was a 90/10 scenario after play two of the first half. And please note that Palmer had played just as badly (actually a little worse than Kitna's end result) versus Pitt during their first meeting this year.

From my perspective, any "90/10" scenario would have to include the assumption that Carson Palmer would have played 100% mistake-free football all day long while leading the Bengals to their 6th highest point total this season in his first playoff start in the Bengals third game this season against a team that had already made him look bad. I'm just not sure how that assumption is any kind of reasonable.

We DID see a dropoff in talent level with Palmer going out. But did we actually see a dropoff in performance level? Maybe. If so, was the performance gap a two TD+FG dropoff? That is, IMHO, a stretch.

Heck, if you take two pass plays, the one was called for interference and the other was not and swap just those calls the game is likely knotted up or only a score away from it. Those plays were very similar.

If things were different, they wouldn't be the same.

I think your working from the assumption that it was Pitts game to lose, I'm not.

Not at all. In fact, with Cinci playing at home, I figured it was closer to 60/40 in their favor at kickoff. Vegas disagreed, of course. Maybe they figured that Roethlisberger not having a splint on his thumb this time around would be the difference. I don't know. But the Bengals took a 17-14 lead into the half and then came out and layed a huge egg in the 2nd half. The whole team.

[Jpup]

In the grand shcheme of things, all of this doesn't really matter at all. Indy would mop either one of them. I find it hard to believe that anyone would argue that.

[traderumor]

Not that it matters, but anyone who follows any NFL game knows that losing your starting QB on offensive play #2 changes everything. Add to that the starting QB is the 2nd best QB in the league, and it is ridiculous to suggest that similar results were obtained with Kitna, so all things are essentially equal.

For example, the 2nd half rally was made much easier thanks to a couple of very Kitna-like INTs. The offense also could not sustain a drive after the first one of the second half, not a likely scenario with Palmer in there, thus exposing the defense even more. Not to mention Bratkowski was quoted as even saying they had to go to different offensive schemes because of dramatic personnel changes. Not to mention the psychological destruction that was obvious.

One should shudder to think what would have happened with Palmer in there since Kitna torched the D in the first half.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Jpup

In the grand shcheme of things, all of this doesn't really matter at all. Indy would mop either one of them. I find it hard to believe that anyone would argue that.

You mean like Indy mopped up the Bengals first time around? Now the Squealers got their clock cleaned, but the Bengals match up well with the Colts.

[deltachi8]

Originally Posted by traderumor

You mean like Indy mopped up the Bengals first time around? Now the Squealers got their clock cleaned, but the Bengals match up well with the Colts.

If its a track meet, then yes, the Bengals match up well.

[traderumor]

In good news, it appears that Palmer will be back for all or most of next season. Obviously, a lot of things have to go right, but thank goodness for advances in sports med or he'd probably be done.

[kyred14]

Not to be picky, but if the Bengals had won, they would be playing the Broncos this week.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Not that it matters, but anyone who follows any NFL game knows that losing your starting QB on offensive play #2 changes everything. Add to that the starting QB is the 2nd best QB in the league, and it is ridiculous to suggest that similar results were obtained with Kitna, so all things are essentially equal.

Really? Ridiculous, eh?

21-36, 227 Yards- 0 TD, 2 INT, 53.8 Passer Rating

22-38, 227 Yards- 3 TD, 0 INT, 101.5 Passer Rating

Which one of those performances is Carson Palmer's?

For example, the 2nd half rally was made much easier thanks to a couple of very Kitna-like INTs.

Yeah, Pitt really "rallied" with all of three points off those two turnovers. That 2nd-half rally was made much easier by a botched FG attempt (that would have put Cinci up by 6) and a defense that hasn't been able to stop anyone from doing much of anything. Doesn't seem to me that either of those things had much of anything to do with Carson Palmer.

If things were different they wouldn't be the same. But why is it that folks who tell me that things would have been different constantly assume that "different" is always spelled "better"? Could it have been better? Sure. Could have been worse too.

And y'know, Carson Palmer isn't INT-proof. Guy threw five picks over his last three games. He's a great QB, mind you. But he's not perfection incarnate.

The offense also could not sustain a drive after the first one of the second half, not a likely scenario with Palmer in there, thus exposing the defense even more.

Uh-huh. Bengals punt once before the botched FG attempt. Scored 17 points they did. Bengals were 6-0 in 2005 when allowing less than 17 points. They were 1-4 when allowing 30 or more. It's all well and good to assume that Palmer would have led the Bengals to their sixth-highest point total of the season versus a team that's allowed more than 30 points once, but that's just not the way things always work out.

Not to mention Bratkowski was quoted as even saying they had to go to different offensive schemes because of dramatic personnel changes. Not to mention the psychological destruction that was obvious.

The Bengals get no points for lack of mental toughness. Seemed to me that the offensive schemes were working. And then suddenly they didn't. But that had everything to do with Jon Kitna and nothing to do with the other team that was on the field. Uh-huh.

One should shudder to think what would have happened with Palmer in there since Kitna torched the D in the first half.

Yeah, they might have lost by less. Or maybe more? Or possibly won. Or not. I dunno. So many questions. Too few answers. None of it capable of being so readily assumed as you suggest.

Carson Palmer goes down and the legend of the unbeatable mistake-proof Carson Palmer rises in his stead. Sounds like Palmer should have waited until after his injury to sign that contract as now it appears he deserves a lot more money. Y'know, for being perfect and all.

[Johnny Footstool]

Sorry I missed so much of this, but I would like to address an earlier point:

HOW was he supposed to "stop" himself while falling into the QB?

That's incredibly easy. He could have straightened his right arm and planted it on the ground to absorb his fall. Instead, he wrapped it around Palmer's leg.

Late hit.

The Bengals get no points for lack of mental toughness. Seemed to me that the offensive schemes were working. And then suddenly they didn't. But that had everything to do with Jon Kitna and nothing to do with the other team that was on the field. Uh-huh.

Kitna was afraid to throw into coverage, and he was generally afraid to throw to the sidelines. The schemes that were working were passes over the middle to Walter and Schobel. The Steelers took the middle away, and Kitna started panicking, holding onto the ball or forcing it (just like he did last week in KC). The Steelers made an adjustment, and Kitna couldn't handle it. Both contributed to what happened in the second half.