Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Eric_Davis · 01-02-2006, 09:15 PM

After Claussen and Harang, who can legitimate stay healthy (150+ innings) and log an ERA of under 5.00?

I say six because at least one of them will miss most of the season from some sort of injury.

Joseph · 01-02-2006, 10:49 PM

In short. Probably not.

StillFunkyB · 01-02-2006, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric_Davis

After Claussen and Harang, who can legitimate stay healthy (150+ innings) and log an ERA of under 5.00?

I say six because at least one of them will miss most of the season from some sort of injury.

Yes, it's possible. I think there is a better chance at Pete Rose being inducted into the HOF then the Reds having an entire rotation with an ERA under 5.

Strikes Out Looking · 01-03-2006, 08:25 AM

I'd be happy with adding a third in '06 (and this implies that Harang and Claussen will continue to improve/pitch at 2005 levels).

M2 · 01-03-2006, 11:57 AM

As Centralchamps noted, the Reds would have to go outside the organization just to up the total to three.

Caveat Emperor · 01-03-2006, 01:38 PM

Hell, have the Reds had 6 decent starters COMBINED in the last 10 years?

Eric_Davis · 01-03-2006, 06:41 PM

Ouch!

Is it really that bad?

Then maybe the better question to ask is...

"Can the REDS come with with 4 starters who can throw 150+ innings with an ERA under 4.40?", and let 10-12 pitchers fill in the rest of the starters inning throughout the year.

M2 · 01-03-2006, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric_Davis

Ouch!

Is it really that bad?

You've watched the team. Of course it's that bad. It's the same cast of characters back again for the most part. Dave Williams has been the only addition and he's a hit-lucky soft tosser with longball tendencies.

Unless the pitchers on the roster have gotten DNA transplants from good pitchers then we're stuck with them being who they are.

paintmered · 01-03-2006, 07:00 PM

To quote Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"It's not impossible, it's just highly improbable."

Strikes Out Looking · 01-04-2006, 08:22 AM

It is that bad. 4 pitchers who throw at least 150 innings with an era under 4.40 is somewhat possible under the best conditions.

Harang and Claussen may meet this standard.

Dave Williams has a shot at it, but 150 innings for him is a lot.

A healthy Paul Wilson can do it. But the word "healthy" is important here, and he may not be back in time to log 150 innings.

Even at his best, Milton's era was in the mid 4's, so unless a miracle occurs, I wouldn't count on him.

As these are the Reds 5 projected starters as of now, my answer to your question is no. However, two things could occur to make it happen: 1. if someone comes out of spring training pitching smoking, Wilson isn't ready, and they go into the rotation and pitch well at the start, you could have number 3. The second situtation is if a trade for a real starting pitcher or a signing of someone who is floating out there that eats innings (not many left), you could get another pitcher that meets the criteria.

I know I'm negative about this, I'd love to see the Reds SPs prove me wrong.

Raisor · 01-04-2006, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintmered

To quote Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:

"It's not impossible, it's just highly improbable."

"I can tell you the answer, but you're not going to like the question."

Caveman Techie · 01-04-2006, 02:44 PM

Can the Reds come up with 6 decent starts this year? Absolutely! Just don't look for many more good starts than that..... OH wait you said starters, nevermind.

larryboy · 01-04-2006, 02:48 PM

How much of the offense are you willing to trade?

In house - no

Strikes Out Looking · 01-04-2006, 04:37 PM

I did some research on this "decent starter" issue.

The 1975 Reds had 4 (Gullett, Billingham, Norman and Nolan), the '76 Reds also had 4 (Zachary, Billingham, Norman and Nolan). The '79 Reds had 5 (LaCoss, Seaver, Norman, Bonham and Hume)--Hume became the closer late in the season but still logged 163 innings. The '90 Reds had 4 (Browning, Rijo, Armstrong and Charlton)--even though Charlton was a nasty boy, he started enough games to end up with a 154.3 innings. The '99 Reds only had 1 (Harnish).

The Reds had 0 in 2003, 1 in 2004 (Wilson) and 2 in 2005 (Harang and Claussen).

Eric_Davis · 01-05-2006, 08:29 PM

Thanks,...

Sorry about the general question, but I haven't had much time to peruse RedsZone in the last several months...I value the opinions around here and appreciate everyone's comments.

Thanks again to those that have responded.

Personally, I've got high hopes that Hudson can pitch well out of spring training and log 150 innings with an ERA under 4.40. I've always liked his makeup and determination....just been waiting for him to get healthy.

01-02-2006, 09:15 PM	#1
Eric_Davis Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, Or Posts: 5,041	Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? After Claussen and Harang, who can legitimate stay healthy (150+ innings) and log an ERA of under 5.00? I say six because at least one of them will miss most of the season from some sort of injury. __________________ Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

01-02-2006, 10:49 PM	#2
Joseph Tired of talk. Win! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 8,122	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? In short. Probably not. __________________ Championships for MY teams in my lifetime: Cincinnati Reds - 75, 76, 90 Chicago Blackhawks - 10 University of Kentucky - 78, 96, 98, 12 Cincinnati Bengals - None Chicago Bulls - 91, 92, 93, 96, 97, 98

01-03-2006, 08:25 AM	#4
Strikes Out Looking Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,264	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? I'd be happy with adding a third in '06 (and this implies that Harang and Claussen will continue to improve/pitch at 2005 levels).

01-03-2006, 11:57 AM	#5
M2 Posting in Dynarama Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Boston Posts: 26,668	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? As Centralchamps noted, the Reds would have to go outside the organization just to up the total to three. __________________ Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong I'm witchcrafting everybody.

01-03-2006, 01:38 PM	#6
Caveat Emperor Titanic Struggles Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The 513 Posts: 12,129	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? Hell, have the Reds had 6 decent starters COMBINED in the last 10 years? __________________ Championships Matter. 22 Years and Counting...

01-03-2006, 06:41 PM	#7
Eric_Davis Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, Or Posts: 5,041	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? Ouch! Is it really that bad? Then maybe the better question to ask is... "Can the REDS come with with 4 starters who can throw 150+ innings with an ERA under 4.40?", and let 10-12 pitchers fill in the rest of the starters inning throughout the year. __________________ Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't." Last edited by Eric_Davis; 01-03-2006 at 06:50 PM.

01-03-2006, 07:00 PM	#9
paintmered SERP Emeritus Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 7,007	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? To quote Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: "It's not impossible, it's just highly improbable." __________________ What if this wasn't a rhetorical question? All models are wrong. Some of them are useful.

01-04-2006, 08:22 AM	#10
Strikes Out Looking Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,264	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? It is that bad. 4 pitchers who throw at least 150 innings with an era under 4.40 is somewhat possible under the best conditions. Harang and Claussen may meet this standard. Dave Williams has a shot at it, but 150 innings for him is a lot. A healthy Paul Wilson can do it. But the word "healthy" is important here, and he may not be back in time to log 150 innings. Even at his best, Milton's era was in the mid 4's, so unless a miracle occurs, I wouldn't count on him. As these are the Reds 5 projected starters as of now, my answer to your question is no. However, two things could occur to make it happen: 1. if someone comes out of spring training pitching smoking, Wilson isn't ready, and they go into the rotation and pitch well at the start, you could have number 3. The second situtation is if a trade for a real starting pitcher or a signing of someone who is floating out there that eats innings (not many left), you could get another pitcher that meets the criteria. I know I'm negative about this, I'd love to see the Reds SPs prove me wrong.

01-04-2006, 02:44 PM	#12
Caveman Techie Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 820	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? Can the Reds come up with 6 decent starts this year? Absolutely! Just don't look for many more good starts than that..... OH wait you said starters, nevermind.

01-04-2006, 02:48 PM	#13
larryboy Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 319	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? How much of the offense are you willing to trade? In house - no

01-04-2006, 04:37 PM	#14
Strikes Out Looking Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,264	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? I did some research on this "decent starter" issue. The 1975 Reds had 4 (Gullett, Billingham, Norman and Nolan), the '76 Reds also had 4 (Zachary, Billingham, Norman and Nolan). The '79 Reds had 5 (LaCoss, Seaver, Norman, Bonham and Hume)--Hume became the closer late in the season but still logged 163 innings. The '90 Reds had 4 (Browning, Rijo, Armstrong and Charlton)--even though Charlton was a nasty boy, he started enough games to end up with a 154.3 innings. The '99 Reds only had 1 (Harnish). The Reds had 0 in 2003, 1 in 2004 (Wilson) and 2 in 2005 (Harang and Claussen).

01-05-2006, 08:29 PM	#15
Eric_Davis Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portland, Or Posts: 5,041	Re: Can the REDS come up with 6 decent starters? Thanks,... Sorry about the general question, but I haven't had much time to peruse RedsZone in the last several months...I value the opinions around here and appreciate everyone's comments. Thanks again to those that have responded. Personally, I've got high hopes that Hudson can pitch well out of spring training and log 150 innings with an ERA under 4.40. I've always liked his makeup and determination....just been waiting for him to get healthy. __________________ Rob Neyer: "Any writer who says he'd be a better manager than the worst manager is either 1) lying (i.e. 'using poetic license') or 2) patently delusional. Which isn't to say managers don't do stupid things that you or I wouldn't."

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