World Cup Discussion Thread

[M2]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

One of the MOST athletic teams? Sorry, I've got to disagree with ya there.

If the US wins in the World Cup, it will be through organization, accurate passing, and an effective offsides trap.

Most teams in the World Cup will be more athletic than the USA.

If you had to run an 10-man relay, I'm guessing the U.S. would be one of the top finishers. True or false, McBride (who you wouldn't count as one of the faster players on the U.S. roster) runs around folks in the Premiership pretty well?

What the U.S. doesn't have is the skill of other nations, but we've got kick and run down pretty well. Everybody needs organization and accurate passing, but what you just described is Italy (soccer's version of the Borg). The U.S. can't beat them at that game.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by M2

If you had to run an 10-man relay, I'm guessing the U.S. would be one of the top finishers. True or false, McBride (who you wouldn't count as one of the faster players on the U.S. roster) runs around folks in the Premiership pretty well?

What the U.S. doesn't have is the skill of other nations, but we've got kick and run down pretty well. Everybody needs organization and accurate passing, but what you just described is Italy (soccer's version of the Borg). The U.S. can't beat them at that game.

When I talk about athleticism, I mean that more in the way of ball skills, creativity, and quickness. The only U.S. player with world-class quickness is DaMarcus Beasley. Our defense, while physical, will be one of the least-athletic starting back lines in Germany. McBride isn't athletic (comparatively). Gritty? yes. Hard driving to the ball? No doubt.

There's a reason Landon Donovan couldn't cut the mustard for Bayern Munich. He's a great player who fits into the US's cohesive unit style of play very well, but he doesn't possess a world-class skill set at this point in his career.

Look at Claudio Reyna, arguably our best player. He's far from athletic, especially at his age. He is, however, an excellent decision-maker and very strong on the ball.

I do agree that we should play a hard-charging style of soccer in the world cup to maximize our chances, but our success won't be because we have better athletes (yet) or players with better, more complete, skill sets.

[M2]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

When I talk about athleticism, I mean that more in the way of ball skills, creativity, and quickness. The only U.S. player with world-class quickness is DaMarcus Beasley. Our defense, while physical, will be one of the least-athletic starting back lines in Germany. McBride isn't athletic (comparatively). Gritty? yes. Hard driving to the ball? No doubt.

There's a reason Landon Donovan couldn't cut the mustard for Bayern Munich. He's a great player who fits into the US's cohesive unit style of play very well, but he doesn't possess a world-class skill set at this point in his career.

Look at Claudio Reyna, arguably our best player. He's far from athletic, especially at his age. He is, however, an excellent decision-maker and very strong on the ball.

I do agree that we should play a hard-charging style of soccer in the world cup to maximize our chances, but our success won't be because we have better athletes (yet) or players with better, more complete, skill sets.

I think you need to separate out ball skills and creativity from athleticism.

Athleticism is comprised of the raw animal qualities the players bring to the mix. The U.S. ranks decidedly ahead of other nations on that front and it's advantage on which the club needs to capitalize (on a sidenote, imagine if LeBron James, Michael Vick and Alex Rodriguez played soccer).

It's why I mentioned marrying style to temperament above. Watch a kid's soccer game sometime. I remember in Spain seeing kids work a short-passing game while they showed off their ball skills. American kids want to boom the ball, streak down the field and attack the net. Pardon the pun, but we're a goal-oriented lot.

Obviously soccer requires you to forge a team and work together, but Americans by nature want to get there faster and strike harder. Our best and brightest do just that. We're never going to have the most skilled players. The Brazilians will always be more creative. The Italians will always have better ball skills. Yet we just might be able to field a team that runs its opponents into the pitch. Shock and awe might be overstating it, but they're not bad guideposts.

BTW, I really like the idea you've got about deploying the midfield with a distrbutor like Reyna playing quarterback and allowing attackers like Donovan to trasition forward in quicker fashion. Obviously defense and ball control are a huge part of the game no matter what style you play. What I'm suggesting (and I'm guessing Heeler is too) is that the U.S. make sure it can run a good fast break, that it be able to pounce.

[WMR]

Yes, I agree with you. It's just that when I think of true devastating athleticism I think of a Wayne Rooney, Christiano Ronaldo, Thierry Henry etc. etc. I don't think we've got a single player of that caliber at this point, but, considering it, I think you may be right in that, as an entire team our athleticism and speed is superior to most other countries.

[WMR]

I really like Kasey Keller but I think Friedel is the superior GK. I wish we still had him in the fold for this WC. His performance in 2002 was unbelievable.

[Betterread]

Originally Posted by M2

BTW, I really like the idea you've got about deploying the midfield with a distrbutor like Reyna playing quarterback and allowing attackers like Donovan to trasition forward in quicker fashion. Obviously defense and ball control are a huge part of the game no matter what style you play. What I'm suggesting (and I'm guessing Heeler is too) is that the U.S. make sure it can run a good fast break, that it be able to pounce.

I like Reyna better as a holding midfielder with Donovan playing behind a lone striker (mcBride) - thus a 4-1-3-1-1 (a modified 4-5-1). Donovan is too frail to hold the ball up in a striker's role at the WC level, in my opinion. He's more effective running freely, finding space and drawing defenders to him. I think our national squad's athletes could be dangerous with a timely counter-attack every now and then. After the way we have played in the last few tournaments, the US should view elimination from the group round as a disappointment. We should advance, although that will be hard given the group we drew.

[OldRightHander]

I saw an EPL team playing a 4-5-1 the other day (kicking myself for not being able to remember who it was) and I liked a lot of what I saw. I think that could work well with the team we have. Say what you will about the tough draw, but if we make it out of that group, the team could be prepared for a good run in elimination play. One can only hope.

[M2]

Originally Posted by Betterread

I like Reyna better as a holding midfielder with Donovan playing behind a lone striker (mcBride) - thus a 4-1-3-1-1 (a modified 4-5-1). Donovan is too frail to hold the ball up in a striker's role at the WC level, in my opinion. He's more effective running freely, finding space and drawing defenders to him. I think our national squad's athletes could be dangerous with a timely counter-attack every now and then. After the way we have played in the last few tournaments, the US should view elimination from the group round as a disappointment. We should advance, although that will be hard given the group we drew.

I'd argue the strength of the U.S. team is players who run freely and can draw defenders to them. That's why one forward strikes me as the team trying to be something it's not.

[ochre]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

Yes, I agree with you. It's just that when I think of true devastating athleticism I think of a Wayne Rooney, Christiano Ronaldo, Thierry Henry etc. etc. I don't think we've got a single player of that caliber at this point, but, considering it, I think you may be right in that, as an entire team our athleticism and speed is superior to most other countries.

There are several other teams in the WC that do not have athletes of that caliber too...

[WMR]

Originally Posted by ochre

There are several other teams in the WC that do not have athletes of that caliber too...

But is there any team in the WC that doesn't have at least one player as athletic as our most athletic player? (I would posit that that player, for our team, is DaMarcus Beasley)

[Red Heeler]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

But is there any team in the WC that doesn't have at least one player as athletic as our most athletic player? (I would posit that that player, for our team, is DaMarcus Beasley)

I would guess that there are more than a few teams that don't have anyone who can beat Beasley, Donovan, or Johnson in a footrace.

As for your earlier post about super athletes, I'll give you Christiano Ronaldo, he's crazy fast with some unbelievable footwork thrown in on top. Henry is fast enough, but it is his striking that makes him a killer. Rooney is pit bull tough, but I don't see anything spectacular about his athleticism.

[WMR]

Rooney is one of the fastest players in the world. We don't have anyone that can blow by defenders like he does in the EPL while maintaining such solid ball control.

[Cedric]

I root for Totaal Voetbal’s finest. Something about those orange uniforms and the style of play. I'm glad they are back.

[WMR]

I love Van Nistelrooy, Davids, Makaay... very talented squad. Especially Van Nistelrooy, what I wouldn't give for the US to have a goalscorer with his acumen and guile.

[ochre]

Originally Posted by Red Heeler

I would guess that there are more than a few teams that don't have anyone who can beat Beasley, Donovan, or Johnson in a footrace.

As for your earlier post about super athletes, I'll give you Christiano Ronaldo, he's crazy fast with some unbelievable footwork thrown in on top. Henry is fast enough, but it is his striking that makes him a killer. Rooney is pit bull tough, but I don't see anything spectacular about his athleticism.

Rooney's definitely above average physically from what I've seen of him in the few PL games I've seen. He looks a step or two faster than a lot of those top level players and he's much stronger.