Kenny Williams rips Frank Thomas a new one

[RFS62]

Originally Posted by M2

So he was a lemming?

A lemhog

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Yeah, someone has to be the adult here. That should have been Kenny.

Who wants to be an adult when you can throw a temper tantrum on ESPN?

[Cyclone792]

Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

Back to Frank... how long have you known the guy? Did you know him when he was 18-years-old and a freshman at Auburn? You may have. But even if you did, it does not mean you know what he did and did not do. Could he have started on the road to roids while playing football at a major D-I program? I'd venture to guess that thousands-upon-thousands of other athletes have. Is Frank above all that? Sure he could be, but I'd put the same odds on the possibility that he has used something that is not legal.

Adam Dunn signed with Texas, a major D-1 program, to play football. Adam Dunn also went from hitting 16 home runs in over 500 PA in low A-ball in 2000 to hitting a combined 51 home runs in over 600 PA in AA, AAA and MLB the very next season.

While you're at it, why you just go ahead and suggest that Adam Dunn used something illegal as well?

[RedFanAlways1966]

Originally Posted by westofyou

No, but Pedro's best buddy in Atlanta knew him even before that.

How long have YOU known him?

I am glad you mention if I know him. No, I do not. As a matter of fact I do not know any MLB players who currently grace the MLB diamonds. I am sure that someone's best friend did know Frank. And if I knew the person who knew Frank, I might believe that person. I do not know this person though. So I have to make my own assumptions. And MLB and the Union are to blame for the many-and-many people just like me who love the game of baseball.

Is it absurd to wonder things like this? My answer (of course) is hell no. If you are a naturally big guy, is it fair to get more questions from the fans? No, but such is life that was setup by the people who run their profession and run the union in which they pay dues to every month.

I see it like this: did people still question gambling on the game of MLB by players after the scandal from 1919 broke? Or did fans think everything was hunky-dory after the news broke and players were put on trial (and eventually banned for life)? I am sure people still questioned the integrity of the game for many years after the White Sox ban. Therefore, you can argue about a player's integrity all day. No problem with that. But do not find fault in others who argue the opposite. Frank's fault? No... despite the fact that he supported the Union that tried so hard to hide the obvious (he really did not have much choice if he wanted the benefits derived from being a member).

Frank and many others will forever be questioned. Right or wrong... blame MLB and the Union.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Originally Posted by Cyclone792

Adam Dunn signed with Texas, a major D-1 program, to play football. Adam Dunn also went from hitting 16 home runs in over 500 PA in low A-ball in 2000 to hitting a combined 51 home runs in over 600 PA in AA, AAA and MLB the very next season.

While you're at it, why you just go ahead and suggest that Adam Dunn used something illegal as well?

Wait... are you the one who swears that Bonds has never taken anything illegal? If so, no sense in even discussing this matter with you.

Thanks.

[Cyclone792]

Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

Wait... are you the one who swears that Bonds has never taken anything illegal? If so, no sense in even discussing this matter with you.

Thanks.

I asked a simple question, why can't you give me a simple answer? It just seems to me that if you have a personal dislike for a player, then it's easy for you to suggest he's a cheater. But if you like the guy, then he must be as honest as they come.

[westofyou]

So I have to make my own assumptions

Yep, there's an old adage about using that road to gaining knowledge.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Originally Posted by Cyclone792

I asked a simple question, why can't you give me a simple answer?

I read your argument regarding Bonds. I cannot see us making any progress in discussing steroids. It is probably best for us not to discuss steroids. Nothing personal at all.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Yep, there's an old adage about using that road to gaining knowledge.

I agree. Same goes for people who argue that Frank is clean b/c a friend of a brother knew Frank. I would think that involves some assuming as well.

And we can see and have seen that the whole steroids issue has caused MLB fans to argue among themselves about who did and who didn't do them. And thank goodness it is all behind us... until someone like Conte comes up with another undetectable supplement. But at least MLB and the Union have finally agreed to test for it and punish those who fail. And I am sorry that I wonder about the cleanliness of players. But don't blame me.

[Cyclone792]

Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

I read your argument regarding Bonds. I cannot see us making any progress in discussing steroids. It is probably best for us not to discuss steroids. Nothing personal at all.

Of course, I can't see us making any progress when you make suggestions on cheating based on your own personal feelings towards a player. Who needs actual evidence when it's really all about who RFA likes and dislikes?

Funny you mention gambling in the 1920s since betting on baseball, fixing games, covering up fixed game scandals, etc. is about ten billion times worse than steroids. But while you've blasted Frank Thomas through this thread via a highly shady connection on steroids, it seems you have no apparent problem with Charles Comiskey, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker being in Cooperstown.

If you're so concerned with everyone being so squeaky clean, then I'd highly suggest plowing through the dirt spread all over the history of the game and petitioning the HOF to throw out several key members. There are guys in Cooperstown that have been circumstantially connected to things FAR worse than steroids.

[westofyou]

I would think that involves some assuming as well.

Yeah a bit, but my evidence is based on 1st person knowledge.

What's yours based on aside from conjecture?

[RedFanAlways1966]

Originally Posted by Cyclone792

But while you've blasted Frank Thomas through this thread via a highly shady connection on steroids, it seems you have no apparent problem with Charles Comiskey, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker being in Cooperstown.

If you're so concerned with everyone being so squeaky clean, then I'd highly suggest plowing through the dirt spread all over the history of the game and petitioning the HOF to throw out several key members. There are guys in Cooperstown that have been circumstantially connected to things FAR worse than steroids.

You are mistaken. I simply asked can it be possible that Frank did steroids while at Auburn. I asked a question. Did not make any accusations. The question can be interpreted in any way that a reader deems. I wondered aloud. Message boards create these thoughts. But with things like BALCO, Rafael, McGwire, etc... why should any fan question these things? Not to mention the sudden drop in 60+ HR season for individuals that we have seen (happened 2X in MLB history and then happens multiple times in a 5-year span, hmmm?!?!). And for anyone who thinks it is unfair for MLB fans to question these things, talk to Bud Selig and Donald Fehr.

Frankly I do not care about things done in the past that may be deemed bad. I care about making things right at the moment. The past can be learned from, but it cannot be changed. And it seems as though MLB has learned. Why do you suppose new rules and testing guidlines were implemented? Do you think it was done b/c there was not a problem? It was just to correct a mis-labeled image problem with fans like me? I think most of us know better than that. I for one was real hurt when that jerk Jose Canseco seemed more right than wrong with his accusations. Some still will not accept it. That is their right. I guess the new guidelines are just for fun and to make fans like me shut our mouths. Could be. Maybe not.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Yeah a bit, but my evidence is based on 1st person knowledge.

What's yours based on aside from conjecture?

That is fine, woy. I cannot argue that he is not. I am not as close as being a third person removed from the person. And we all know that users tend to be the first ones to admit it.

Frank must be clean. I must be wrong and should be punished for wondering and asking the question. This is what happens to a guy who has followed the game during the 1990's and 2000's. But remember that there will always be people who think pro-wrestling is real. But who really knows...?

[deltachi8]

I dont know if Thomas used steriods or not, dont know any one who knows him or knows his uncle's cousin's college roommate. I dont see the problem with asking the question, as long as its an honest question.

I think this was.

Beack to Williams, I understand he should have just ignored it and had his rant behind closed doors away from the media. He is suppose to be a professional. However, isn't Thomas, and other ML Players suppose to be professionals too?

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by deltachi8

He is suppose to be a professional. However, isn't Thomas, and other ML Players suppose to be professionals too?

We know that a lot of ball players are self absorbed prima donnas(no shock there). Now there is a GM that looks like one too.