Game Thread: Reds vs. Twins 3/13/06

[BRM]

Originally Posted by M2

Hatteberg, though I support the concept of Milton cheating to win (someone needs to send him a care package of Vaseline and emory boards).

Good point. Maybe the Reds can hire Gaylord Perry as his personal pitching coach.

[membengal]

I like Hatteberg, and I like his inclusion on the team, in theory. That theory being the same one I had with Aurilia this time last year before the bad man handed Aurilia a starting spot ahead of FeLo. IF Hatteberg is here as a lefty bat off the bench and one start a week or so, then fine. If it's to be a starter? Well, less fine. I am assuming its the former, and don't read anything into his many spring at-bats, other than to note that with Pena and Jr. gone, there has been plenty of chances to play him with Dunn getting some OF time to stay sharp.

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by TRF

Freel

at

DH.

wow. He can't buy PT at 2B this spring.

Competition my foot.

[BRM]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Competition my foot.

The only real competition was for 3B. Womack had 2B sewn up the day he was signed.

[Hoosier Red]

Now wait a second, the Reds have played 12 games, and Freel has started at least 3 at 2nd base if memory serves.
Plus he's a known commodity.
Plus he hasn't hit his weight, or Lindsay Lohan during her eating disorders' weight.

I'm not in Womacks' camp, but if you're going to go off of spring performances, it's hard to say he doesn't deserve the spot over Freel right now.

[BRM]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

, but if you're going to go off of spring performances,

I don't. I go off their career performance. There is no reason for Freel to be "competing" with Womack or Aurilia for the 2B job.

[Hoosier Red]

Why, it's not like Ryan Freel has proven himself to be a superstar.
I'm not going to argue about whether he has been better than Aurillia or Womack over the course of his career.
But this isn't Felipe Lopez or Edwin Encarnacion, two great prospects who need to start in order to establish themselves.
This isn't Adam Dunn or Ken Griffey Jr, who have proven themselves to be so superior at their position over time at their position that you can accept a poor spring training.

People act like if Tony Womack is the opening day 2nd Baseman, he'll be there all year. Baseball is a marathon, and the way you get through the marathon is occasionally challenging guys and playing the hot hands.

If Womack continues to hit and get on base all spring, I definately want him to start on Opening Day. If he cools off, and Ryan Freel can unseat him, great, if not then Freel doesn't deserve the position anyway.

Ryan Freel has played well over the last two years, but he certainly doesn't deserve to have the position handed to him.

[TRF]

No, Freel has proven to be a guy that gets on base at a .370 clip, steals bases, and likely plays as good if not a better 2B than Womack.

He was just signed to a 2 year deal.

This is RA all over again, with Freel competing for a spot that should have been his as of last year.

[Heath]

Take good notes, kids - prior engagement this evening.

See you after the game!

(rep points may be awarded!) Stay tuned!

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by Heath

Take good notes, kids - prior engagement this evening.

Where's your commitment???

[BRM]

Originally Posted by TRF

No, Freel has proven to be a guy that gets on base at a .370 clip, steals bases, and likely plays as good if not a better 2B than Womack.

He was just signed to a 2 year deal.

This is RA all over again, with Freel competing for a spot that should have been his as of last year.

Exactly. Thanks for the reply here TRF. I was out and unable to answer the question.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by Hoosier Red

If Womack continues to hit and get on base all spring, I definately want him to start on Opening Day. If he cools off, and Ryan Freel can unseat him, great, if not then Freel doesn't deserve the position anyway.

Ryan Freel has played well over the last two years, but he certainly doesn't deserve to have the position handed to him.

That's just it, though -- Womack has proven throughout his career that he's not going to hit, he's not going to get on, and, at this point in his career, the only way he's going to steal bases with regularity is if someone leaves the equipment room unlocked.

Ryan Freel, on the other hand, has produced consistently when he's been in the lineup over the last few years.

He's simply a better player -- and the goal of any team should be (absent issues of developing v. declining skills) to put the best 8 players on the field every night. That simple, simple concept is something the Reds have had a difficult time figuring out the last few years.

[Hoosier Red]

I'm willing to concede that Freel has been superior to this point. However, it's not like he's irreplaceable.

I'm not arguing the merits of whether there should be a competition. It doesn't matter what we think, there is a competition.
What I was arguing was whether Freel is getting a "fair shot," and he is. So far he hasn't played well. Hopefully he turns that around.

It's also not a repeat of Aurillia, going into last season Lopez hadn't proven anything, and certainly didn't look like a guy who would be the everyday shortstop. He outplayed Aurillia in spring training by a fairly healthy margin, and eventually got his shot and did the best with it.

[RedsManRick]

Narron has repeatedly said that veterans don't need to prove themselves in ST. IIRC, he actually said it once in response to a Freel quesiton. Freel is essentially a known commodity. His performance in ST likely has little bearing on how he'll be used.

Everything I've read suggests that Freel will not be named the starting 2B. He will be used in a utility role which sees him start 3 or 4 times a week. They've stated repeatedly that they just don't think he could hold up physicaly as a full time player. He could hit .500 in ST and that point of view likely wouldn't change. The real question seems to be who is the "starting" 2B, and sadly, it's looking like Womack at this point.

[flyer85]

Womack sure is making good use of that speed this spring. Stretching a triple into a double.

Minnesota broadcasters pointed out a similar play with Tyner(to the Womack play being out at 3rd) in the Twins first and pointed out how the Twins 2B went out much further to get the relay and made a strong accurate throw whereas the Reds 2B(Womack) did not.