Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

savafan · 03-16-2006, 12:46 PM

http://www.newsday.com/sports/printe...y-sports-print

BY KEN DAVIDOFF
STAFF CORRESPONDENT

March 16, 2006

FULLERTON, Calif. -- This World Baseball Classic has no greater advocate than Chipper Jones. The Atlanta third baseman has spoken repeatedly about his pride in wearing "USA" on his chest.

But as Team USA worked out yesterday at Cal State-Fullerton, not knowing whether it would play another meaningful game in this tournament, Jones offered a couple of suggestions on how to improve this event.

They were major suggestions.

The 1999 National League MVP recommended moving the WBC to November, and he also said the byzantine tiebreaker rules, which he described as "bogus," need to be discarded.

"On November 1, everybody's in shape," Jones said. "There wouldn't be an issue with pitch counts. There wouldn't be an issue with knocking the rust off coming into spring training. Things like that. I think it would be a little bit better tournament. You'd probably see a little more offense and a little more emphasis on starting pitching."

The timing of the WBC has generated the most controversy. The Yankees, and many other clubs that kept their thoughts private, objected that a March schedule forced veteran players to rush their conditioning, playing competitively at a time of year when they usually don't. The shoulder injuries to the Yankees' Johnny Damon and the Cubs' Derrek Lee, neither of whom will start today's second-round finale against Mexico, gives ammunition to the Yankees and others.

Commissioner Bud Selig and the union have argued that no other time of year works. They don't want to break up the season in July, and they fear that too many players would be out of shape and/or out of touch by November.

Jones begs to differ regarding November. "It's a lot easier to stay in shape after a long season with just a month," Jones said. "Rust usually sets in around December, when guys get fat over the holidays. I think it would be less of an adjustment over the end of the season, as opposed to now. Most of the top-flight pitchers are pitching in the playoffs."

Continued Jones: "Especially in my camp, Yankees camp, [veteran players] go out, they get two at-bats the first 10 days of camp, and then they're gone. The intensity, it's not there. We're kind of playing ourselves into shape, hoping to get there by April 1."

The WBC's tiebreaker system, which follows the model for other international baseball tournaments, has vexed Team USA, both in last week's first round and in the second round. The team understood that it was rooting for a South Korea victory over Japan late last night, but barring that, it wanted Japan to score at least eight runs in a nine-inning victory; a low-scoring victory by Japan would have immediately eliminated the U.S. It goes back to the runs allowed - per nine innings - against common opponents among Team USA, Japan and South Korea.

"The tiebreaker is bogus. I don't agree with that," Jones said. "I would change that . . . Knock it down to two flights. Do like a double-elimination thing. Have the winners of the two flights play in San Diego."

In all, however, Jones has greatly enjoyed his WBC experience and would recommend it to those who opted not to participate. He most of all liked being the teammate of Roger Clemens, whom he described as "more like Jesus than I thought."

"He's got worldwide respect," Jones said of Clemens. "He's like EF Hutton. When he speaks, people listen."

dman · 03-16-2006, 01:12 PM

As much as I dislike Chipper, every point that the guy made was valid. Of course with the exception of what he said about Roger Clemens.

TeamBoone · 03-16-2006, 01:36 PM

I like what he said too.

From a player standpoint (game ready) and a fan standpoint (still hungry for baseball after the WS), November sounds like a good time.

KronoRed · 03-16-2006, 01:36 PM

Move ST to Feb the regular season start to march and play the WBC in October

oneupper · 03-16-2006, 02:24 PM

There are two problems with November. One is the Winter Leagues. It may not mean much to the US fans...but in the Caribbean and Mexico, it is all they have. You could argue (and be right) that the bit Latin stars don't show up for their winter leage teams until December (if at all).
The other is the weather. It's fine in the Caribbean, Florida and perhaps California, but I'm not sure about Asia (if you are going to play in Japan or Korea).
I think this you can work around.

The other point I agree with totally (if I understand it right). Two groups. I'd say 6 teams each (RSA, Italy, China and Australia don't belong yet). Let them play a round robin (five games each). Best two go to the semis...crossing groups (Winner Pool A vs Runner Up Pool B).

Then a final. In all there would be fewer games...but BETTER games.

(To make things fairer, they could do a qualifying round for the the 12th team...that way Australia,RSA, etc..could get a chance).

As for tie-breakers. With 5 games it's less likely (although it is possible to have one team go 5-0 and the other five go 2-3). Leave space in the schedule for an extra game.

vaticanplum · 03-16-2006, 02:25 PM

I still think that having the WBC in November would lead to a lot of injuries and a lot of fatigue. I have my doubts that a lot of guys would be willing to play -- they're exhausted, burnt out, and want to get home to their families. The current situation is far from perfect and it messes up the season, but it does not, at the very least, extend it.

TeamBoone · 03-16-2006, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

I still think that having the WBC in November would lead to a lot of injuries and a lot of fatigue. I have my doubts that a lot of guys would be willing to play -- they're exhausted, burnt out, and want to get home to their families.

But we have to remember that this is NOT an annual event. They may be willing to bite the bullet every 3-4 years.

Caveat Emperor · 03-16-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

I still think that having the WBC in November would lead to a lot of injuries and a lot of fatigue. I have my doubts that a lot of guys would be willing to play -- they're exhausted, burnt out, and want to get home to their families. The current situation is far from perfect and it messes up the season, but it does not, at the very least, extend it.

Plus, in November, the WBC would competing heavily for sports viewership with both the heart of the NFL season, the real crunch-time in college football, and the start of the NBA season.

KronoRed · 03-16-2006, 05:45 PM

If they want to do it right it should be in the middle of the year and take a 3 week break.

But MLB won't do that.

ochre · 03-16-2006, 05:52 PM

Drop back down to 154 games?

MWM · 03-16-2006, 06:14 PM

I agree with Chipper, this timing is horrible. But it's been a pleasant surprise. I've actually enjoyed it and I didn't think I would. Japan has really gotten screwed in this thing and if the US wins it all, that will be one of the biggest stories coming out of it.

I don't know how to work this in, but any single elimination in baseball is bogus. They have to find a way to make it at least 2 out of 3 if you want this to be about the best teams winning.

I'm hoping that the players having a good experience will lead to all the marquis players wanting to play in it. I didn't like the idea of the WBC at first, but now I think it could potentially be a great event. Although, they could just have the Asian countries, the Caribbean countries, and the US and cut it down to a couple of weeks.

TeamBoone · 03-16-2006, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Plus, in November, the WBC would competing heavily for sports viewership with both the heart of the NFL season, the real crunch-time in college football, and the start of the NBA season.

That's only on Sat and Sun.

TeamBoone · 03-16-2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ochre

Drop back down to 154 games?

You'd want to do this every year for an event that's held every 3-4 yrs?

Caveat Emperor · 03-16-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamBoone

That's only on Sat and Sun.

And Monday (MNF)...

And Wednesday (ESPN College Football Mid-Majors)...

And Thursday (NFL Network game & ESPN College Football)...

That's not even counting that there isn't a soul indoors on Friday nights throughout the Midwest and South due to High School football.

KronoRed · 03-16-2006, 06:33 PM

Drop to 144 ever 4 years.

03-16-2006, 12:46 PM	#1
savafan Maple SERP Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 17,485	Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules http://www.newsday.com/sports/printe...y-sports-print BY KEN DAVIDOFF STAFF CORRESPONDENT March 16, 2006 FULLERTON, Calif. -- This World Baseball Classic has no greater advocate than Chipper Jones. The Atlanta third baseman has spoken repeatedly about his pride in wearing "USA" on his chest. But as Team USA worked out yesterday at Cal State-Fullerton, not knowing whether it would play another meaningful game in this tournament, Jones offered a couple of suggestions on how to improve this event. They were major suggestions. The 1999 National League MVP recommended moving the WBC to November, and he also said the byzantine tiebreaker rules, which he described as "bogus," need to be discarded. "On November 1, everybody's in shape," Jones said. "There wouldn't be an issue with pitch counts. There wouldn't be an issue with knocking the rust off coming into spring training. Things like that. I think it would be a little bit better tournament. You'd probably see a little more offense and a little more emphasis on starting pitching." The timing of the WBC has generated the most controversy. The Yankees, and many other clubs that kept their thoughts private, objected that a March schedule forced veteran players to rush their conditioning, playing competitively at a time of year when they usually don't. The shoulder injuries to the Yankees' Johnny Damon and the Cubs' Derrek Lee, neither of whom will start today's second-round finale against Mexico, gives ammunition to the Yankees and others. Commissioner Bud Selig and the union have argued that no other time of year works. They don't want to break up the season in July, and they fear that too many players would be out of shape and/or out of touch by November. Jones begs to differ regarding November. "It's a lot easier to stay in shape after a long season with just a month," Jones said. "Rust usually sets in around December, when guys get fat over the holidays. I think it would be less of an adjustment over the end of the season, as opposed to now. Most of the top-flight pitchers are pitching in the playoffs." Continued Jones: "Especially in my camp, Yankees camp, [veteran players] go out, they get two at-bats the first 10 days of camp, and then they're gone. The intensity, it's not there. We're kind of playing ourselves into shape, hoping to get there by April 1." The WBC's tiebreaker system, which follows the model for other international baseball tournaments, has vexed Team USA, both in last week's first round and in the second round. The team understood that it was rooting for a South Korea victory over Japan late last night, but barring that, it wanted Japan to score at least eight runs in a nine-inning victory; a low-scoring victory by Japan would have immediately eliminated the U.S. It goes back to the runs allowed - per nine innings - against common opponents among Team USA, Japan and South Korea. "The tiebreaker is bogus. I don't agree with that," Jones said. "I would change that . . . Knock it down to two flights. Do like a double-elimination thing. Have the winners of the two flights play in San Diego." In all, however, Jones has greatly enjoyed his WBC experience and would recommend it to those who opted not to participate. He most of all liked being the teammate of Roger Clemens, whom he described as "more like Jesus than I thought." "He's got worldwide respect," Jones said of Clemens. "He's like EF Hutton. When he speaks, people listen." __________________ This is the Cal Ripkin Jr. of typos. If you ask me to join your fantasy baseball league and I select Legolas in the first round, don't be angry at me. It's not my fault I've read up on the players and you haven't.

03-16-2006, 01:12 PM	#2
dman Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 1,385	Re: Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules As much as I dislike Chipper, every point that the guy made was valid. Of course with the exception of what he said about Roger Clemens.

03-16-2006, 01:36 PM	#3
TeamBoone "Let's Roll" Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 12,821	Re: Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules I like what he said too. From a player standpoint (game ready) and a fan standpoint (still hungry for baseball after the WS), November sounds like a good time. __________________ "Enjoy this Reds fans, you are watching a legend grow up before your very eyes" ... DoogMinAmo on Adam Dunn

03-16-2006, 01:36 PM	#4
KronoRed The Lineups stink. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: West N. Carolina Posts: 55,342	Re: Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules Move ST to Feb the regular season start to march and play the WBC in October __________________ Go Gators!

03-16-2006, 02:24 PM	#5
oneupper Danger is my business! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Back in Florida Posts: 7,852	Re: Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules There are two problems with November. One is the Winter Leagues. It may not mean much to the US fans...but in the Caribbean and Mexico, it is all they have. You could argue (and be right) that the bit Latin stars don't show up for their winter leage teams until December (if at all). The other is the weather. It's fine in the Caribbean, Florida and perhaps California, but I'm not sure about Asia (if you are going to play in Japan or Korea). I think this you can work around. The other point I agree with totally (if I understand it right). Two groups. I'd say 6 teams each (RSA, Italy, China and Australia don't belong yet). Let them play a round robin (five games each). Best two go to the semis...crossing groups (Winner Pool A vs Runner Up Pool B). Then a final. In all there would be fewer games...but BETTER games. (To make things fairer, they could do a qualifying round for the the 12th team...that way Australia,RSA, etc..could get a chance). As for tie-breakers. With 5 games it's less likely (although it is possible to have one team go 5-0 and the other five go 2-3). Leave space in the schedule for an extra game. __________________ "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it." http://dalmady.blogspot.com

03-16-2006, 02:25 PM	#6
vaticanplum Has big taste Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 6,704	Re: Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules I still think that having the WBC in November would lead to a lot of injuries and a lot of fatigue. I have my doubts that a lot of guys would be willing to play -- they're exhausted, burnt out, and want to get home to their families. The current situation is far from perfect and it messes up the season, but it does not, at the very least, extend it. __________________ There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

03-16-2006, 05:45 PM	#9
KronoRed The Lineups stink. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: West N. Carolina Posts: 55,342	Re: Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules If they want to do it right it should be in the middle of the year and take a 3 week break. But MLB won't do that. __________________ Go Gators!

03-16-2006, 05:52 PM	#10
ochre Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,266	Re: Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules Drop back down to 154 games? __________________ 4009

03-16-2006, 06:14 PM	#11
MWM Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 12,171	Re: Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules I agree with Chipper, this timing is horrible. But it's been a pleasant surprise. I've actually enjoyed it and I didn't think I would. Japan has really gotten screwed in this thing and if the US wins it all, that will be one of the biggest stories coming out of it. I don't know how to work this in, but any single elimination in baseball is bogus. They have to find a way to make it at least 2 out of 3 if you want this to be about the best teams winning. I'm hoping that the players having a good experience will lead to all the marquis players wanting to play in it. I didn't like the idea of the WBC at first, but now I think it could potentially be a great event. Although, they could just have the Asian countries, the Caribbean countries, and the US and cut it down to a couple of weeks. __________________ Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

03-16-2006, 06:33 PM	#15
KronoRed The Lineups stink. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: West N. Carolina Posts: 55,342	Re: Chipper Jones: Move WBC to November and change the tiebreaker rules Drop to 144 ever 4 years. __________________ Go Gators!

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