If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

M2 · 03-20-2006, 07:11 PM

As we kick around permutations of Bronson Arroyo's K rate and what the potential opening day lineup might be, let's talk about the other half of Wayne Krivsky's "pitching and defense" mantra.

Even if Arroyo brings his K rate back up to its 2004 heights, he's going to need someone to field the ball behind him. In fact the whole Reds pitching staff is going to need that. It's not like this is a termination-oriented staff the club will be trotting out there.

To me it makes little sense to start investing in pitching and then undercut it with atrocious defense.

Edwin Encarnacion has range and it looks like he's tamed his arm a bit. A slimmer Austin Kearns should be good in RF. Felipe Lopez is the SS and hopefully he'll continue to improve in the field. Jason LaRue and Javier Valentin are capable behind the plate.

One major problem lurks out in CF. If the Krivsky regime is serious about reshaping this team, it will coax Ken Griffey Jr. into an OF corner for the good of this team. Put Chris Denorfia out in CF with Kearns in RF and Jr. in LF and you've done your pitching staff an enormous favor. Basically you've closed up a gap and a half. Obviously that would entail Adam Dunn at 1B.

As we've all heard, Scott Hatteberg is the nominal bonhomme at 1B for the moment. I don't mind Hatteberg and I actually expect he'll perform all right this season (he seems to thrive in even-numbered years), but he's not helping the team in the field and benching him paves the way for a better defense.

That leads us to 2B. Forget, as best you can, about Tony Womack's numerous offensive shortcomings. The Reds can't afford to stick a glove that lousy in the field. In fact, I'm going to take that concept so seriously here that I'm going to suggest sacrificing a player I truly love. Ryan Freel is a dynamite leadoff hitter and the Reds' equivalent of Chone Figgins, just play him wherever you've got you biggest hole. Yet, at best, he's a mediocre 2B. My suggestion would be to play the hell out of Freel until you get a good trade offer for him, then replace him with a glove guy (nominally Matt Kata at the moment). The team can figure out the 1-2 hitters among Lopez, Denorfia, Encarnacion and Kearns. At some point you have to give you pitching some support. Lopez, Jr. and Dunn are already enough sacrifices made in the name of scoring. If it means the Reds become a 750-run team instead of an 820-run team, so be it. Until the organization figures out how to stop the other team, the offense is an afterthought.

Puffy · 03-20-2006, 07:14 PM

*cough* Joey Gathright *cough*

OnBaseMachine · 03-20-2006, 07:14 PM

*cough* Chris Young *cough*

M2 · 03-20-2006, 07:16 PM

You'll get no arguments from me on Gathright or Young.

Though I was thinking of this in McGyver mode, trying to use the spare pieces available at the moment. WWRDAD?

KronoRed · 03-20-2006, 07:17 PM

*cough* Gathright is probably more easily obtained, the D-backs need Young *cough*

jmcclain19 · 03-20-2006, 07:19 PM

You guys should get something for those coughs. Seems to be spreading

flyer85 · 03-20-2006, 07:21 PM

The easiest way to improve your pitching without getting better pitchers is to improve the defense. The Reds were the worst defensive OF in baseball last year and just missed an opportunity to improve the defense by moving Jr to LF where he would likely be a little above average and installing denorfia in CF. Instead the OF still stinks and now the 1b and 2b stink defensively as well. Hatteberg is a -25 FRAA downgrade from Casey of 2005.

OnBaseMachine · 03-20-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KronoRed

*cough* Gathright is probably more easily obtained, the D-backs need Young *cough*

The D-Backs are loaded with outfield prospects.

Carlos Quentin, Carlos Gonzales, and Justin Upton. Plus Shawn Green, Luis Gonzalez, Eric Byrnes, and Scott Hairston on the Major League roster.

Chip R · 03-20-2006, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2

You'll get no arguments from me on Gathright or Young.

Oh, sure, they are good defensive players but do they Know How To Win? Can they Play The Game Right?

OnBaseMachine · 03-20-2006, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip R

Oh, sure, they are good defensive players but do they Know How To Win? Can they Play The Game Right?

More importantly, are they baseball guys?

flyer85 · 03-20-2006, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

More importantly, are they baseball guys?

or are they scrappy?

Puffy · 03-20-2006, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip R

Oh, sure, they are good defensive players but do they Know How To Win? Can they Play The Game Right?

Do they wear the high stirrups? Do they pee on their hands so as not to get blisters? Are they awesome at the practical jokes?

These are things Narron needs to know.

Johnny Footstool · 03-20-2006, 10:29 PM

The D-Rays were asking for Scott Olsen in exchange for Gathright.

pedro · 03-20-2006, 10:30 PM

This just seems like the perfect opportunity to move KGJ to LF and put Denofria in CF.

KronoRed · 03-20-2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedro

This just seems like the perfect opportunity to move KGJ to LF and put Denofria in CF.

That makes too much sense.

03-20-2006, 07:11 PM	#1
M2 Posting in Dynarama Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Boston Posts: 26,668	If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense? As we kick around permutations of Bronson Arroyo's K rate and what the potential opening day lineup might be, let's talk about the other half of Wayne Krivsky's "pitching and defense" mantra. Even if Arroyo brings his K rate back up to its 2004 heights, he's going to need someone to field the ball behind him. In fact the whole Reds pitching staff is going to need that. It's not like this is a termination-oriented staff the club will be trotting out there. To me it makes little sense to start investing in pitching and then undercut it with atrocious defense. Edwin Encarnacion has range and it looks like he's tamed his arm a bit. A slimmer Austin Kearns should be good in RF. Felipe Lopez is the SS and hopefully he'll continue to improve in the field. Jason LaRue and Javier Valentin are capable behind the plate. One major problem lurks out in CF. If the Krivsky regime is serious about reshaping this team, it will coax Ken Griffey Jr. into an OF corner for the good of this team. Put Chris Denorfia out in CF with Kearns in RF and Jr. in LF and you've done your pitching staff an enormous favor. Basically you've closed up a gap and a half. Obviously that would entail Adam Dunn at 1B. As we've all heard, Scott Hatteberg is the nominal bonhomme at 1B for the moment. I don't mind Hatteberg and I actually expect he'll perform all right this season (he seems to thrive in even-numbered years), but he's not helping the team in the field and benching him paves the way for a better defense. That leads us to 2B. Forget, as best you can, about Tony Womack's numerous offensive shortcomings. The Reds can't afford to stick a glove that lousy in the field. In fact, I'm going to take that concept so seriously here that I'm going to suggest sacrificing a player I truly love. Ryan Freel is a dynamite leadoff hitter and the Reds' equivalent of Chone Figgins, just play him wherever you've got you biggest hole. Yet, at best, he's a mediocre 2B. My suggestion would be to play the hell out of Freel until you get a good trade offer for him, then replace him with a glove guy (nominally Matt Kata at the moment). The team can figure out the 1-2 hitters among Lopez, Denorfia, Encarnacion and Kearns. At some point you have to give you pitching some support. Lopez, Jr. and Dunn are already enough sacrifices made in the name of scoring. If it means the Reds become a 750-run team instead of an 820-run team, so be it. Until the organization figures out how to stop the other team, the offense is an afterthought. __________________ Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong I'm witchcrafting everybody.

03-20-2006, 07:14 PM	#2
Puffy Puffy 3:16 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Panama City Beach Posts: 13,669	Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense? cough Joey Gathright cough __________________ "I came here to kick ass and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum." - - Rowdy Roddy Piper "It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man" - - Fletch

03-20-2006, 07:14 PM	#3
OnBaseMachine Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 34,655	Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense? cough Chris Young cough __________________ I miss Adam Dunn.

03-20-2006, 07:16 PM	#4
M2 Posting in Dynarama Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Boston Posts: 26,668	Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense? You'll get no arguments from me on Gathright or Young. Though I was thinking of this in McGyver mode, trying to use the spare pieces available at the moment. WWRDAD? __________________ Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong I'm witchcrafting everybody.

03-20-2006, 07:17 PM	#5
KronoRed The Lineups stink. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: West N. Carolina Posts: 55,343	Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense? cough Gathright is probably more easily obtained, the D-backs need Young cough __________________ Go Gators!

03-20-2006, 07:19 PM	#6
jmcclain19 Smells Like Teen Spirit Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Phoenix Posts: 6,486	Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense? You guys should get something for those coughs. Seems to be spreading

03-20-2006, 07:21 PM	#7
flyer85 He has the Evil Eye! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: south of the border Posts: 23,858	Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense? The easiest way to improve your pitching without getting better pitchers is to improve the defense. The Reds were the worst defensive OF in baseball last year and just missed an opportunity to improve the defense by moving Jr to LF where he would likely be a little above average and installing denorfia in CF. Instead the OF still stinks and now the 1b and 2b stink defensively as well. Hatteberg is a -25 FRAA downgrade from Casey of 2005. __________________ What are you, people? On dope? - Mr Hand

03-20-2006, 10:29 PM	#13
Johnny Footstool Churlish Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 13,665	Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense? The D-Rays were asking for Scott Olsen in exchange for Gathright. __________________ "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

03-20-2006, 10:30 PM	#14
pedro Please come again Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: portland, oregon Posts: 14,716	Re: If you're going to trade for pitching, how about some defense? This just seems like the perfect opportunity to move KGJ to LF and put Denofria in CF. __________________ Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

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