Pena traded for Arroyo

[Tommyjohn25]

I will also say I like the move. The current formula wasn't working and this changes that formula. I will wait and see how the trade shakes out to start calling for BA or Krivskys head, as I am almost positive that this move is a building block for much bigger and better things, Krivsky is no idiot...and BA is not great, but he's also no slouch. Will this move lead us to the promised land? No. But neither was Wily Mo, and outfielders are much easier to come by than a SP.

[Candy Cummings]

Originally Posted by johngalt

Something had to give, and it did here.

Will Bronson Arroyo become a very good pitcher for us? I don't know.

Will Wily Mo Pena become a superstar in Boston? I don't know.

Does this improve our rotation and, in turn, our bullpen? Yes.

Does improving the pitching staff improve our chances to win? Yes.

I think this is the only possible conclusion at this point. Even average pitching is an improvement for us. Teams just aren't going to trade #1 starters--probably for anyone and definitely not for WMP.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by Crash Davis

I'd rather seem him target Ryan Shealy now. He could hit circles around Hee Seop Choi, and the Rockies say they're going to bury him in AAA again after the outfield experiment didn't take.

Bingo, although the Rockies might still be looking to swap Helton. Grabbing Shealy would be great.

Package Denorfia and a PTBNL and have at it 'cause Lord knows if Denorfia isn't going to play now there's no reason to keep him around.

But there's the problem. Because the Reds didn't acquire a high-level arm now they need to use resources to backfill the 1B position. Sigh.

[Matt700wlw]

Originally Posted by Cedric

The Reds wanted to make a point and they did it. Yippee! Another fourth starter at best. I really can't handle this organization much longer.

And you expected to get what for Wily Mo?

They could have traded Dunn, POSSIBLY for a top-of-the-line starter (I don't know what kind of Market value an Adam Dunn has), but then people would complain that they traded Dunn.

This improves the team....Wily Mo out of the outfield improves them defensively right there. Wily Mo could emerge as a supestar, but this is chance that the Reds had to take to make THIS team better.

Krivsky has the drive to pull the trigger, something Dan O'Brien never did.

[M2]

Originally Posted by westofyou

I have a hard time loving guys who have trouble fielding any OF position, K every 3 ab's walk every 17 and have never hit above .280 at any level.

A lot of that revolves around him being moved up way ahead of his developmental curve. He'll mature into a better player.

Though I'm still fine with the trade.

[westofyou]

He'll mature into a better player.

Maybe, I thought that about Willie Greene too.

[M2]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Maybe, I thought that about Willie Greene too.

Good point. I'd say the important difference is that Willie didn't care and Wily Mo works his tail off.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by SteelSD

But there's the problem. Because the Reds didn't acquire a high-level arm now they need to use resources to backfill the 1B position. Sigh.

The main difference being that there's an exchange rate issue, though.

Restocking a first baseman takes a lot less capital than restocking a starting pitcher.

[ghettochild]

dunno if its been posted:

per rotoworld

After trading Wily Mo Pena, the Reds are plan to open the season with Scott Hatteberg at first base and Adam Dunn back in left field.
The 36-year-old Hatteberg shouldn't have been viewed as anything more than a pinch-hitter and an emergency stopgap. That the Reds actually might have both him and Tony Womack in the starting lineup on Opening Day is a farce. Hatteberg still won't have much value in NL-only leagues, though he does have to be considered at $2-$3 now. No indication was given, but Rich Aurilia should at least start over him against left-handers. Ryan Freel still benefits from the Pena trade, though not as much as he should. We also like Bronson Arroyo and the rest of the pitching staff less with the Reds so firmly committed to making sure they don't lead the league in runs scored for a second straight year. Mar. 20 - 2:09 pm et

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by M2

I'd say PECOTA's got a solid baseline for Arroyo there. It's important to remember that last year was the first time he went above 200 IP. He hit the wall after the All-Star break and had to fight through it. I expect he'll come back wiser, stronger and better prepared for a 200 IP season this year.

Arroyo has real good movement on his pitches and pretty sharp control when he's on, so I'm reasonably confident his K rate will rise in 2006. All things considered, he should be a solid pitcher. Heading into the season with Harang, Arroyo and Claussen is the best Reds have been for a front three in the rotation since 1999, though each guy probably has a #3 pitcher ceiling (200+ IP, ERA in the high 3.00s). Harang might be able to deliver those innings with a sub-3.50 ERA, but that would be more of a one-shot deal than a consistent run.

I expect Pena will be a pretty big bat for the Red Sox in the coming years. I'll stick by my Ron Gant comparison.

Ideally you wouldn't want to trade a young Ron Gant for a Dave Burba type, but the Reds need to practice some Realpolitik. I'll resurrect something princeton said a long time ago about the JimBo Reds, they should be willing to lose a trade to get what they need. It seems to me they just did that. Pena probably will be the better talent out of this trade. But can he pitch? No. Arroyo can.

Also, Pena shouldn't be the last OF the Reds trade this year for pitching. Kearns and Jr. should be on the block for the right price. There's a lot of work left to do. The good news is it this move indicates Krivsky's up for doing it. The Reds need to be remade and 200 IP of a guy who should be at least an average pitcher isn't a bad start.

Very good post. This trade puts me squarely in the Krivsky's got balls camp. Hats off to the guy on this one.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by M2

Good point. I'd say the important difference is that Willie didn't care and Wily Mo works his tail off.

So true, every horse has a carrot, some get to it and don't care for the taste, some just get a brief taste and make everyone think it's a given they'll be munching on it for the next ten years.

Pena has to learn to walk, field way better and connect with the ball a bit more.

That's a bunch of carrots.

[osuceltic]

I like that they traded offense for an established starting pitcher. The guy has started a lot of games the last two years for a team that won a lot of games. He's inconsistent, and I'm not sure why that is. Getting Arroyo out of Boston also might be a good thing for his career. He had become something of a rock star there and had developed a party-boy reputation. Maybe getting him in an environment where he's a little more grounded will help. We'll see.

My reservation comes strictly as a fan. I really liked Wily Mo. I just did. He had a contract that really hindered his development (his own fault), but he worked hard and turned himself into a big-league player. I like to think there's more development to be made there. I hope he does well in Boston. Seems like a good kid.

I'll say it one more time ... This wouldn't have been my approach. I would have gone for the big strike with Dunn. But if you take that option off the table, I think Krivsky did very well with this move.

As for Hatteberg ... I think he'll be an OK stopgap at first, sort of like Randa was at third last season. Every team needs guys like that.

[registerthis]

Originally Posted by osuceltic

As for Hatteberg ... I think he'll be an OK stopgap at first, sort of like Randa was at third last season. Every team needs guys like that.

I'd tip over with glee if hatteberg put up Randa-esque numbers.

[RedsBaron]

The two most recent significant trades made by the Reds were to trade away Casey and Pena for pitchers many here are underwhelmed with, which in turn appears to indicate that:
1. O'Brien and Krivsky are both incompetent ( I agree with that evaluation as it applies to DanO); and/or
2. Posters here have vastly overrated the market for Casey and Pena ( I have to go for this one as well).

[KronoRed]

Ridiculous to trade Pena and then start Hatteberg, absolutely ridiculous, teams that love to lose do stuff like that.

Since 2nd is going to be Womacks, then put Freel in left, it's better for the entire team.