Merged: Clemens to be an Astro / Rocket coming back to Astros

[Team Clark]

I was in town Thursday and part of Friday. Before I left Cincinnati to go work in Cleveland Sat/Sun I had lunch at the boathouse with two of Houston's execs. Both of them have had direct dealings with Roger and his agents this season and past seasons. Although there is supposed to be no negotiations before May 1, Clemens has a deal in place with Houston that could be announced May 1. However, the Astros are not expecting to announce anything in the next few weeks. They do expect him June 1.

My first question to them was why Roger seen courting other teams? Directly, without hesitation, the answer was simple. Roger, no matter what he has said publicly, can not stand to be out of the spotlight. The Rangers practically made him Mayor of Arlington for the better part of three days. He craves that type of MEGA star attention. He is beyond Superstar status and has a cult like following in Houston. He is simply not ready to give that up. They both commented that Bagwell is suffering from the same predicament. Neither can adjust to a "regular" life.

I asked both of them about the recent Baseball Tonight piece that speculated he was going to Boston. They both kind of laughed and said that in Boston or anywhere else he can't have the "lifestyle" he desires. New York will not allow him to stay at home between starts. Texas may give him all of the lattitude he wants but he is very close to many of the Astros. Being able to pitch and stay home to play with the kids seems to be a big deal. Roger is leaning toward coming back in June so that he can finish strong. He figures to make between 16-20 starts including the post season. Roger feels he can be "dominant" during that span.

I did ask if Roger had the ability to change his mind. They did say that obviously he is not under contract "at this moment" but they do not forsee him backing out. Clemens and his agent are the ones who came back to the table and gave the parameters of the deal.


I saw Graves pitch tonight. THAT HAIR!! Geez.

[Aronchis]

That puts the Astros back into the fray for the whole season.

[Reds Nd2]

I guess I'm just skeptical, but I'll believe it when I see it. Besides astrobuddy already informed us that Clemens would be an Astro.

[Team Clark]

Originally Posted by Reds Nd2

I guess I'm just skeptical, but I'll believe it when I see it. Besides astrobuddy already informed us that Clemens would be an Astro.

I'm a day late and a dollar short. I too am a little skeptical because I have not heard the dollar figures. Dollars mean a lot to Clemens. I have known both the guys that I had lunch with for years. One for 14 years the other for 6. If either are embellishing or fibbing it will be the first I have heard of it.

I would not say this to them, but I'd like to see the Rocket come back as a Yankee.

[dman]

Clemens has been on the East Coast, Canada, and the Southwest. Why doesn't Anaheim make a bid for him so that he can vie for a West Coast team?

[TeamBoone]

TC (or anyone else), something really bothers me about this Clemens thing, though it would apply to any player if applicable.

Why does he (any player?) have the right to hold out for so long as to whether or not he will play this year? MLB has so many rules that I can't for the life of me figure out why there is no rule against this. IMHO, there should be.

It isn't fair to his own team, nor is it fair to the other teams. If he doesn't pitch before June 1, there may be out-of-division teams that will never have to face him. And/or in-division teams that will face him more than others merely because MLB has given him their blessing to take a vacation for the first two months of the season!

All players should be required to make that decison before the season starts or be doo-doo out of luck?

What if every player did that? Or even just the other superstars?

It totally reeks, and I don't like it one bit. It shouldn't be allowed.

[Reds Nd2]

Originally Posted by Team Clark

I would not say this to them, but I'd like to see the Rocket come back as a Yankee.

This is just my opinion, but I see Clemens following the money and I'm just not buying the NY team, Yankees presumably, won't allow him to have days off when the team travels. Every team often plays short handed and the rosters will expand in September, so I don't see that as much of an deterrent. Whichever team has deep enough pockets for the Rocket will get him when the time comes. Could very well be the 'Stros in the end, but I wouldn't be suprised to see him in pinstripes come August.

Thanks for the update TCII.

[flyer85]

Clemens will be a solid addition. I would expect an ERA in the 3.5 range this time around.

However, it doesn't address the main problems this team has which is a lack of OBP from the one and two spots nd little LH punch. Those two Biggio and Tavares never walk. This team really suffers from a lack of punch from the left side which makes them very susceptable to RH pitching.

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by Reds Nd2

This is just my opinion, but I see Clemens following the money and I'm just not buying the NY team, Yankees presumably, won't allow him to have days off when the team travels. Every team often plays short handed and the rosters will expand in September, so I don't see that as much of an deterrent. Whichever team has deep enough pockets for the Rocket will get him when the time comes. Could very well be the 'Stros in the end, but I wouldn't be suprised to see him in pinstripes come August.

Steinbrenner has deep pockets, but they don't empty unconditionally. He has very specific ideas about what it means to play for that team and my impression is that he doesn't take too kindly to what he sees as egotistical demands. That's fresh in my mind because I'm reading Game of Shadows and it references the fact that the Yankees dropped out pursuing Bonds pretty early in the race of his early 2000s free agency due to his demands -- Steinbrenner didn't take too kindly to Bonds's assumption that he would be the main superstar on the team. The book mentions something about how Steinbrenner feels it is an honor to wear the uniform and he blanches when players don't bite back at that.

Obviously, Steinbrenner is familiar with Clemens, but I do not think he'd let up on the travel rule. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the travel rule was specific to Houston because of his family being there, ie. if he requested the same in New York, it would TRULY be a self-serving request in every way and pretty much an excuse to dump the team when he didn't have to pitch for them.

I'm not saying George wouldn't go nuts if the Yankees were close to the postseason but clearly needed Clemens to get them there. But they can probably do it without him, so that coupled with all of the above makes me think that Clemens will not be a Yankee with the same perks he had in Houston. Apart from the money, of course.

[Reds Nd2]

Originally Posted by TeamBoone

TC (or anyone else), something really bothers me about this Clemens thing, though it would apply to any player if applicable.

Why does he (any player?) have the right to hold out for so long as to whether or not he will play this year? MLB has so many rules that I can't for the life of me figure out why there is no rule against this. IMHO, there should be.

It isn't fair to his own team, nor is it fair to the other teams. If he doesn't pitch before June 1, there may be out-of-division teams that will never have to face him. And/or in-division teams that will face him more than others merely because MLB has given him their blessing to take a vacation for the first two months of the season!

All players should be required to make that decison before the season starts or be doo-doo out of luck?

What if every player did that? Or even just the other superstars?

It totally reeks, and I don't like it one bit. It shouldn't be allowed.

I see your point TB and someone can answer you better than I can, but he's not holding out. He just hasn't signed a contract yet. The Astros declined to offer him salary arbitration and that's why the Astros can't sign him before Monday. Basically he can sit on his arse and attend Freedom games untill he decides to go back to work. I don't really blame him and would do the same if I could. Most players, even the superstars, can't do that because they are under contract to their respective teams. I know you don't like it, but untill Clemens decides to go back to work for someone thats just the way it is. Look at it this way, the Reds won't have to face him as often this season.

[marcshoe]

otoh, it would have been nice to beat Oswalt, Pettite and Clemens to sweep the 'stros....

[westofyou]

Why does he (any player?) have the right to hold out for so long as to whether or not he will play this year?

Talent and service time.

In short he's talented enough to get by with it, and he's earned the right to attempt it, MLB could ignore him and see how that worked out, plus he probably knows that he has only so many innings in his arm this year, by holding out he ends up leveraging prime innings later in the summer.

He's a hired gun.

[TeamBoone]

I see your point TB and someone can answer you better than I can, but he's not holding out. He just hasn't signed a contract yet.

In short he's talented enough to get by with it, and he's earned the right to attempt it, MLB could ignore him and see how that worked out, plus he probably knows that he has only so many innings in his arm this year, by holding out he ends up leveraging prime innings later in the summer.

He's a hired gun.

It makes me sick, and I still think it's crap.

I don't like him anyway, and this makes me dislike him even more. What a prima donna.

[Phhhl]

Originally Posted by TeamBoone

It makes me sick, and I still think it's crap.

I don't like him anyway, and this makes me dislike him even more. What a prima donna.

I agree with you 100%, TB. There is something against the spirit of the rules about this, if not the letter of the rules. I would hate to see other players follow Clemens' example in the future.

Let's not pretend. No Reds fan wants to see The Astros add a hall of fame pitcher at mid-season. Hopefully, they will be forced to pay Jeff Bagwell all his money and they won't be able to afford him this time.

I have to say, I do detect some arrogance about the Astros this year. The World Series appearance may have gone to their heads. In many ways, it's the perfect club for an egomaniac like Roger.

[Newman4]

TC, it sounds like these Houston boys you spoke with aren't really as sure as they talk. I think it's a lot of wishful thinking there. That story about him craving attention is crap IMO. I think he's like a young guy who has a girlfriend but still goes to the bar and hits on all the other chicks. He's playing the Astros, knowing that he can always fall back on them to kiss his rear and give him whatever he asks for (i.e. no travel, money, etc.). Maybe they're not announcing anything May 1 b/c Roggie wants to see who's gonna be a contender and who's not.