Olney's NYY replacement possibilities

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

And for the record, Yankees fans -- and I am surrounded by them in life and frequent internerd message boards as well -- are by and large quite critical of the spend-money-quick-fix Steinbrenner approach as well. To state otherwise is to draw yet another conclusion about the Yankees by non-Yankees fans with no legitimate basis.

I would agree with that, except for one disclaimer. They definitely are critical as soon as a deal is made. But they have very short memories and love these deals when Unit is throwing well or when ARod is winning an MVP, thinking once again that Cashman is the smartest GM around and Torre is the grand pooba of MLB. Living in NJ, I see this all the time.

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

I would agree with that, except for one disclaimer. They definitely are critical as soon as a deal is made. But they have very short memories and love these deals when Unit is throwing well or when ARod is winning an MVP, thinking once again that Cashman is the smartest GM around and Torre is the grand pooba of MLB. Living in NJ, I see this all the time.

That's true. That's also most baseball fans though. There are exceptions: I will never think that Randy Johnson was a good trade, even if he pitches a perfect game in the World Series. But that's pretty irrational of me -- in a logical world, wouldn't that trade have then been considered a good one?

But I just wanted to throw a reminder in there, after the blanket statement that Yankees fans are running around message boards saying that "since we're the Yanks, we should go get anyone we want." Patently not true.

[UK Reds Fan]

If the Yanks start to tumble a bit behind Boston in the East and Cleveland gets on their horse in the Central challenging the Yanks post-season hopes, I think you'll see Cashman and Yankee brass to a quick about face and make knee-jerk reactions like they do in most years that they have a challenger to them.

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by UK Reds Fan

If the Yanks start to tumble a bit behind Boston in the East and Cleveland gets on their horse in the Central challenging the Yanks post-season hopes, I think you'll see Cashman and Yankee brass to a quick about face and make knee-jerk reactions like they do in most years that they have a challenger to them.

Can I ask what knee-jerk reactions they made last season when they trailed Baltimore and Boston alternately until September? Acquiring Shawn Chacon (a surprisingly good move that any contending team would have been wise to make as borderline contenders in July)? Bringing up Wang, Cano and Small?

Cashman and Torre have hinted pretty strongly that they've tired of the knee-jerk reactions that Steinbrenner makes, and Steinbrenner, batty as he is, has calmed down and listened to them more in the last few years. A-Rod was costly, but was made with an eye towards the future. Johnson was dumb. Damon was a legitimate move that actually DROPPED salary from their payroll with the demotion of Williams and the loss of Kevin Brown. And all of these happened in the off-season.

If they make a big-name move, we'll talk about it then; I probably won't like it any more than you do. But until then, criticizing the Yankees for a move that they *may* make, based solely on the fair and knowing opinions of millions of Yankee haters, is baseless and irrelevent.

[vermonter]

The recent Sox-Yankees series was very interesting both in a strategic sense and a tactical sense. The tactics employed were good by both managers, and showed the beauty of the concept of the unbalanced schedule. Both teams made several good tactical adjustments that made the series interesting from a lineup/rotation level to a laying off certain pitches/sign stealing level. I'm sure you see similar things in the N.L. Central head-to-head games.

On the strategic level, however, the Yankees three main weaknesses really got exposed:

1. Lousy defense
2. Mediocre bullpen
3. Lack of bench

The Sox team still isn't firing on all cylinders (and maybe never will this season), but only the stellar pitching of Mussina kept them from sweeping the Yankees because they played solid fundamental ball.

No team in baseball has a bigger dropoff from its starters to its bench than the Yankees, who simply cannot win without huge offensive numbers from its starters.

I can't imagine that the Reds would trade Kearns while in first place, or in contention, although the opportunity of unloading Griffey's contract might neither hurt the Reds nor help the Yankees, given his injury propensity. Hopefully, teams will resist unloading high-priced talent to the Yankees at least until late July by which time the Yanks are hopefully 22 games behind Boston/Toronto.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

Can I ask what knee-jerk reactions they made last season when they trailed Baltimore and Boston alternately until September? Acquiring Shawn Chacon (a surprisingly good move that any contending team would have been wise to make as borderline contenders in July)? Bringing up Wang, Cano and Small?

Cashman and Torre have hinted pretty strongly that they've tired of the knee-jerk reactions that Steinbrenner makes, and Steinbrenner, batty as he is, has calmed down and listened to them more in the last few years. A-Rod was costly, but was made with an eye towards the future. Johnson was dumb. Damon was a legitimate move that actually DROPPED salary from their payroll with the demotion of Williams and the loss of Kevin Brown. And all of these happened in the off-season.

If they make a big-name move, we'll talk about it then; I probably won't like it any more than you do. But until then, criticizing the Yankees for a move that they *may* make, based solely on the fair and knowing opinions of millions of Yankee haters, is baseless and irrelevent.

They couldn't make a knee-jerk reaction last year since they had no one to trade..they were the biggest shoppers last year but couldn't close any deals b/c of the lack of depth in the farm.

[UK Reds Fan]

1. I would call A. Boone's acquisition a knee jerk move.
2. Randy Johnson's could be as well for what they paid to move Vasquez for a 40 yr old pitcher.
3. Spitting the bit on Contreras for Loiza (who had a history of mediocre pitching vs. one very good season) wasn't a very patient decision.

Just to name a few.

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

They couldn't make a knee-jerk reaction last year since they had no one to trade..they were the biggest shoppers last year but couldn't close any deals b/c of the lack of depth in the farm.

I'm getting a little tired of defending the Yankees at every turn. They have HUGE holes in their team. Their farm system is terrible. They spend money frivolously and unwisely. They are short-sighted. They are run by a crochety old man who terrorizes his front office and his players into submission. All of this is true, and I am the first one to criticize it.

But you know what? Every team has huge holes, and we seem to be able to debate those while focusing in on a single point and backing our arguments with facts. If a negative point about the Yankees is made, nobody questions it regardless of whether there are facts to back it up. When the Yankees come up, we run in circles.

To summarize this thread: Oh, they're going to trade for a big-name player. Actually, they've made no indications that they want to do so right now; quite the contrary in fact. Well, they will at the deadline; they always do. Actually, they didn't do that in the most recent season in which they were borderline contenders. Well, they didn't do it because they couldn't based on their farm system. (although, for the record, several teams were rumored to be interested in both Cano and Wang, and they refused to trade them.)

Well look, we're right back where we started. We can all agree that the Yankees still have no farm system. So what indications do we have, again, that the Yankees will be trading for a big-name player? Or is it just the easiest argument to pull out with the Yankees because the way they operate is hated by so many that no one will question it?

I'll listen to stats pointing out their lack of defense. I will buy you a beer if you want to commiserate over the performance of that lout Randy Johnson with me. I will go over their payroll with a fine-tooth comb with you and look for legitimate, long-term solutions that we can put on perfumed paper and mail to George Steinbrenner. But when people start throwing out any argument they can about the Yankees involving the catch-all phrases "money" or "farm system", to the point where they actually end up contradicting themselves, I start to lose it a little bit.