Let's all take a deep breath (everyone please read)

[paintmered]

Originally Posted by savafan

Call me crazy, but I'm starting to think that maybe you moderators have been too lenient, and that perhaps swifter, more frequent use of banning powers...for both the new posters who get out of hand and the so called "long time respected" posters who get out of hand might help to quiet some of the noise around here. 24 hour bans are possible right? Are 1 week bans possible? Can you set how long you want the ban to be for arbitrarily?

It could be looked at more to give people a cooling off period than as "punishment". I once got a one week ban on the Marlins fan message board, and when I was able to post again there, I was better for it.

It is always good to e-mail and explain to people why they are banned though, and how for how long.

I also think that there should be some kind of punishment for having too much negative rep. That only makes sense, that if you get rewarded for 200, that there be a punishment for some arbitrary negative number.

For about a month prior to the board split, that was the policy - ban anything and everything. Suffice to say, it was not a viable solution and actually made matters worse. It was however, a heckuva lot of fun for Zombie.

An ideal solution would be one where I (and the other mods) are less needed IMO.

[RedFanAlways1966]

If you do not like this place... then do not come here.
If you think this place has issues or problems... then do not come here.

The internet has millions of sites and no one is forced to access any of them. You come here, you do it one your own freewill. If this place is so bad, then do not come here.

I was new here at one time. I was not a part of any other board before here. I did not come here as part of a migration from another board. I got mocked at times, I got "yelled at" at times. Oh well... it is what it is. I joined someone else's board and had to accept it for what it was.

Changes have happened since I joined. Some good, some not so good (In my opnion). But it is not my board and I had to accept those changes. Most changes were a result of members being asked for their opinions before changes were made. That seems fair to me.

If you are new, then do not come in here and think you can change the place. Offer suggestions. Many have been here since day one. They helped make this place what it is. You came here b/c you heard about the quality of this place (deny it if you want, but you know the truth). You have been to many other sites and came here b/c you know the best place for REDS talk. There is no perfect place. That is true. This is the best that it gets. However, there are types who would complain about the taxes that they have to pay if they win the Lotto. And those types will always be there and here. I hope the squeaky wheels DO NOT get the oil. Especially ones who have been here for short times.

Leave the best site for REDS talk alone. And if it is so bad, do not come here. Simple.

[savafan]

Originally Posted by paintmered

An ideal solution would be one where I (and the other mods) are less needed IMO.

I agree, but is that possible?

Originally Posted by wolfboy

Look, what I said wasn't a judgement statement. It's fact around here. If you want respect, you'll have to earn it Start by taking the time to learn what this place is about. Redszone is very much about the personalities that exist within it. If you ever learn anything about this place, that is of the utmost importance.

If you post a rash, off the top of your head post, certain members won't care for it. They'll usually let you know about it. That's part of their "redszone personality" if you will. Once you understand that, you can avoid it completely. If you bring well reasoned, thought out posts, you will earn respect quickly. It has nothing to do with being a "stathead" or anything else. It's simple. Take the time to learn a bit about how the board works, and bring your best when you post. I'll just about guarantee that if you take that approach, you won't be demanding respect, you'll be earning it.

Guess I never heard that was the makeup of RedsZone: Don't Chat, Do Analyze. Am I interpreting this correctly? If so, I'm done with this board.

[wolfboy]

Originally Posted by paintmered

For about a month prior to the board split, that was the policy - ban anything and everything. Suffice to say, it was not a viable solution and actually made matters worse. It was however, a heckuva lot of fun for Zombie.

An ideal solution would be one where I (and the other mods) are less needed IMO.

Perhaps we could have a permanent sticky on the board that details some of the expectations here. We have the board rules that detail all of the things a poster cannot do. We don't have anything that really says what a poster should do. If we're going to expect integrity and quality on the board, we may have to spell that out for some.

I think a temporary block on posting for new members would help. For some, this place can be like a kid in a candy store. They may be new to message boards, or haven't seen a Reds message board of this caliber. The tendency is there to post every emotion that crosses their mind. If we prevent new members from posting for a week or two, it will give them the time to read the board over and get to know the place. This could also prevent the "Dunn Sucks" 1 post count types from coming around after every loss.

I think savafan could be right about the moderation/reputation issue. There should be repercussions for those who receive excessive negative reputation. Maybe a one day cooling off period? If people aren't able to stop and take a deep breath, then maybe a control should be in place to make them do so.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by saboforthird

Guess I never heard that was the makeup of RedsZone: Don't Chat, Do Analyze. Am I interpreting this correctly? If so, I'm done with this board.

Chat all you want. But if you're the type who gets angry when someone challenges something you say, then you're going to have problems here.

[gonelong]

Originally Posted by griffeyfreak4

When I first came here I completely understood the idea of having to earn your rep. It made sense to me, and I don't have a problem with it.

Cool.

It's just now we (the board) are beginning to have a problem, and we one Reds Live are taking the blame when I don't see why we should.

Some friendly advice here, just relax, its not specifically anything you have done. This certainly isn't the first time this board has had some turmoil and growing pains, and it won't be the last. Every so often we have to spit the bit and come to grips with the growth of the site. A lot of people tend to think we have built something very valuable here and they are going to be a bit protective of it, I know I am.

I don't feel that the tenor of the board is to blame "the new guys" for the state of Live at this point, its that the ORG has failed to do a few things.

1) Expectations are not clear enough
2) Enforcement is not swift or harsh enough from members (rep pts)

As a group, the posters of Reds Live are not where I'd want them to be, but that isn't something I am putting on them. To me its that blame lies squarely on the ORG members.

I don't expect to walk in here and be able to run the place, but until recently I never felt this feeling of insignificance.

Its just a message board, I really don't think that many, if any of the posters around here sit around and contemplate their significance on the board. Most of us are here because its the premier place to get the full scoop on the Reds, much more than you are going to get on the local radio or print. I know I'd come here just to read, even if I could never post.

That said, its not an easy task to be "significant" around here. There are quite literally hundreds of posters that have earned distinction over time. Some for keen observations, some for an uncanny ability to read a situation correctly, some for stating things that are ridiculed at first and become "common knowledge" a year or two down the road, some for the niche information (draft, rule 5, etc) the bring, and some for statistical analysis.

We are ALL pretty much insignificant here as individuals. This site has gained/lost some outstanding members over time, but it marches on ... mainly because it has been policed very well over the years and has a number of quality posters to provide outstanding content.

All we are trying to do here is ensure that the atmosphere that allowed this board to thrive, remains. Its not personal to any individual poster.

GL

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

Chat all you want. But if you're the type who gets angry when someone challenges something you say, then you're going to have problems here.

I *never* have a problem when someone challenges something I say. It wouldn't be a discussion if everyone had everyone else on ignore, and posted to themselves. I *do* have a problem with the way *certain* folks here go about doing that. That's been the premise of most of the posts in this thread. That's what needs to change.

[vaticanplum]

I think this board is largely delightful. My only problems right now are with the freaking baseball team it celebrates.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by gonelong

Cool.



Some friendly advice here, just relax, its not specifically anything you have done. This certainly isn't the first time this board has had some turmoil and growing pains, and it won't be the last. Every so often we have to spit the bit and come to grips with the growth of the site. A lot of people tend to think we have built something very valuable here and they are going to be a bit protective of it, I know I am.

I don't feel that the tenor of the board is to blame "the new guys" for the state of Live at this point, its that the ORG has failed to do a few things.

1) Expectations are not clear enough
2) Enforcement is not swift or harsh enough from members (rep pts)

As a group, the posters of Reds Live are not where I'd want them to be, but that isn't something I am putting on them. To me its that blame lies squarely on the ORG members.



Its just a message board, I really don't think that many, if any of the posters around here sit around and contemplate their significance on the board. Most of us are here because its the premier place to get the full scoop on the Reds, much more than you are going to get on the local radio or print. I know I'd come here just to read, even if I could never post.

That said, its not an easy task to be "significant" around here. There are quite literally hundreds of posters that have earned distinction over time. Some for keen observations, some for an uncanny ability to read a situation correctly, some for stating things that are ridiculed at first and become "common knowledge" a year or two down the road, some for the niche information (draft, rule 5, etc) the bring, and some for statistical analysis.

We are ALL pretty much insignificant here as individuals. This site has gained/lost some outstanding members over time, but it marches on ... mainly because it has been policed very well over the years and has a number of quality posters to provide outstanding content.

All we are trying to do here is ensure that the atmosphere that allowed this board to thrive, remains. Its not personal to any individual poster.

GL

This feels like The Godfather when they go to the mattresses...

CLEMENZA

Pretty ******* bad. Probably all the other Families will line up against us. That's alright -- this thing's gotta happen every five years or so -- ten years -- helps to get rid of the bad blood. Been ten years since the last one. You know you got to stop them at the beginning, like they should have stopped Hitler at Munich, They should never've let him get away with that. They were just asking for big trouble. You know, Mike, we was all proud of you -- being a hero and all. Your father, too.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

I think this board is largely delightful. My only problems right now are with the freaking baseball team it celebrates.

[wolfboy]

Originally Posted by saboforthird

Guess I never heard that was the makeup of RedsZone: Don't Chat, Do Analyze. Am I interpreting this correctly? If so, I'm done with this board.

I was never saying not to chat. This place is here for discussion. At the same time, it operates as a community. If newer posters spend the time to learn the community element, it will go a long way in being comfortable here.

[SunDeck]

I said this on the other thread, which is now closed. Spent some time thinking about it and it's something I feel strongly about, so I wanted to post it here as well. Although I don't post like I did in the early days, I still consider this group of people to be close friends and I value the relationships we have here. Being a good citizen on Redszone has nothing to do with newness to the board; it's about manners, respect and treating each other with dignity. If you can't do that, then you really shouldn't be coming here.

Here is what I said on the other thread, pardon the repetition:

Man, I can't believe this. First, a thread addressing the downward spiral of the board karma, then a thread to talk about the thread about the downward spiral of the board karma.

What really gets me about all this is that so many people seem to forget that we all have one thing in common, a love of the Cincinnati Reds. That's got to be worth something, and I personally have no problem considering everyone here a friend first, assuming that each and every poster would extend the same courtesy to me.

How does this influence me when I post? Well, it means that I don't write stuff here that I wouldn't say to a friend. There are millions of ways to have dissagreements with your buddies without causing offense, without getting up in their face, without dressing them down in front of a bunch of others. In short, I offer the same respect to everyone here that I believe is due to me. If I don't get it, I will mention it, but it will not be in a way that escalates the confrontation.The first order of business from my perspective is to make sure that the offending party understands that I don't play that way. It's my own little golden rule- post kindly and treat others with respect.

In the end, maybe a strong performance by the Reds will change things. I remember how fun things were with this group back in the day, when the Reds were playing well and surprising the major leagues. But that was several years back, and we have endured subsequent managerial incompetence, injuries and just poor play by our favorite team. I hope the Reds get on a run, partly because I wish they were a better ballclub. But also, I wish they would get on a run so that everyone here would perk up and start looking on the brighter side of their fellow posters. Failing that, maybe some folks need to evaluate their own personal priorities a little bit.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by saboforthird

Guess I never heard that was the makeup of RedsZone: Don't Chat, Do Analyze. Am I interpreting this correctly? If so, I'm done with this board.

your loss. certainly not mine.

I've cut back a bit on posting. I rarely post in threads like this one. But I was an original migrant from cincinnati.com, and this "place" is important to me.

What many in this thread fail to realize is this isn't a formal organization. There is no signed charter. Moderators were added to assist the OWNERS of this forum in keeping the peace, and to help with technical issues if they can (duplicate posts, merging of threads etc.)

I disagree that any topic has been beaten to death, only that some poster may not want to discuss it anymore. Fine, that is your right. But a 16 year old kid that comes here for the first time wants to discuss EE's batting average or Dunn's strikeouts. They don't want to read a discussion that took place a year ago, they want to DISCUSS.

Another poster brought up the MLB.com and the newly revived cincinnati.com boards. Both have some good posters, but they are drowned out by the noise that is the "Dunn is teh suck" crowd. No I am not talking SABR only types. The most revered poster Redszone ever had was not a SABR type, and yet when he posted we all read, because yes, he was that damn good. Everyone here should aspire to that kind of writing.

There has been an influx of new posters. This is directly attributable to the Reds early success this season. And when that success started to fade you see the dark side of being a fan. There are times when Reds Live! isn't much better than MLB.com. but that's ok too, because cream usually rises to the top. Submit quality posts enough times and you get permission to ORG. Not that we don't have bad posts there, but most all of ORG's posters know and respect the rules.

Ah... I mentioned the rules. There are 6 rules. 6.

Is this really that hard?

[membengal]

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

I think this board is largely delightful. My only problems right now are with the freaking baseball team it celebrates.

Yeah. What VP said.

And this thought...people seem to want this board to be something it tries NOT to be, that is, they want it to be like the vast majority of other boards out there where access to a keyboard and a working synapse gives you some bizarre right to have your say. Well, happily, the people who founded this oasis have tried for something more. If you are uncomfortable with that concept, or it makes you feel unloved or unappreciated, this may not be the board for you. If, however, you are seeking a community of fellow lovers of the Reds and baseball, and are willing to do some thinking, well, there's plenty of good here.

I have avoided this particular conversation until now, but drop in to add this thought...being new in a place (like I was not too very long ago on here, and still am in many ways) means taking the time to learn about it and fit in. In many ways, a mature chat board like this is much like a house. You simply don't walk into somone's house and drop your muddy shoes on the coffee table and then spit in the corner. You take the time to get to know your environs, and work at finding a place. It takes time. And it takes effort. I don't see a good reason for short-cutting that process, or changing it.

There are people on this board who I treasure reading. Their thoughts are immensely valuable to me, and I appreciate their efforts. My love of the game and my understanding of it is deeper because of their passion. My hope for people who seem so agitated, particularly newer members, is to take the lead of OldRighthander among others who have identified in this thread how you can converse, disagree, learn, and adjust.

But, and this should be clear, access to a keyboard and a random thought doesn't = "respect", whatever is meant by that. "Respect", in any sense, comes from adding thoughts of substance. For what it's worth, I will never be mistaken for a "stathead", whatever that means, but have occasionally thrown up posts that people enjoyed reading and apparently added something to the conversation. That's cool. And it's available to all. No big deal.

More moderation is not the answer. Merging boards is not the answer. Simple adherence to what the founders of this board were striving for is the answer. To make this place better than 99.9% of the chatboards out there. Which can only happen when people buy into the concept that more is required from them when they post.

Peace.

---Aaron