Time to Rearrange the Seats on the Titanic - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

TheBigLebowski · 06-18-2006, 01:03 AM

Todd Coffey officially became the closer on May 31, the last day of the month.

Todd's April ERA in 15.0 IP was 0.60 w/opposing batters hitting .246 against.
Todd's May ERA in 15.0 IP was 1.80 w/opposing batters hitting .214 against.
Todd's promotion (so to say) became effective on the first of June.
Todd's June ERA in 7.1 IP is 7.60. Don't have the opp batt. avg yet.

I would like to again remind the jury that Todd was the closer effective June 1.

We all know correlation may not imply causation, but I think it is fair to assume that Todd is not handling closing duties well. Appears to me that he is more comfortable in a setup role.

My Proposal:

Make Matt Belisle the closer effective as soon as he is healthy enough to pitch.

Put Todd back in the role he occupied in May/June.

Float a PTBNL to the Indians for Scott Sauerbeck. Restrict the universe of PTBNL choices to Rick White, Chris Hammond, Richard White, Ricky White, and Christopher Hammond. I'd also float a PTBNL to the 'Backs for Russ Ortiz, and promptly place him in the pen, provided we do not have to acquire much of his salary.

If the Sauerbeck trade does not go through, we need to reassign White and Hammond. Create a fan game that allows the fan to throw a baseball as hard as he/she can and, instead of having the fan guess how hard he/she threw the ball, he/she will guess what part of the White/Hammond anatomy he/she will hit. Bonus points are awarded for the left/right arm as applicable, and free beers to all if he/she hits a groin, so as to reduce the possibility that White and/or Hammond should reproduce. Think of it as flea market Darwinism. Should the player miss the target entirely, he/she has to pay double.

With regards to Mercker, Mays, Yan, Weathers, so on and so forth..I really don't know. I can't even think of creative ways in which we could inflict pain upon them. Honestly, all jokes aside, there is not one single person in this bullpen in which I place any confidence. Actually, that's not completely true - I have a high degree of confidence in their ability to allow runs to score each and every time they appear in Reds' games.

I never fully appreciated how important the bullpen is. When I was old enough to understand baseball, we had the Nasty Boys. Few years after they left, we still had a pretty good bullpen, although the rest of our team was lousy. I never understood what a priority it was. Don't think Jim Bowden or Dan O'Brien did either.

dsmith421 · 06-18-2006, 02:12 AM

I'm sorry, this team is soaring. We are rearranging seats on the Hindenburg.

cincinnati chili · 06-18-2006, 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsmith421

I'm sorry, this team is soaring. We are rearranging seats on the Hindenburg.

I know, I know. We're rearranging antennae on the World Trade Center.

GAC · 06-18-2006, 06:03 AM

Why don't we play musical chairs with the closer job? When the music stops, whoever gets the chair, gets the job.

I don't see any answers to this BP problem within this organization right now. We've been "trying" guys - calling some up, taking chances on other team's DFAs, and experimenting till the test monkey is just about dead.

This is a problem that may be fixed around the trading deadline, or it may have to wait till the off-season. And even then, we may have to dump some salary in order to add it.

Topcat · 06-18-2006, 06:15 AM

I think Claussen could be a closer. Supposedly he has a bulldog mentality and frankly in one inning he could air it out and be damned with thinking beyond that point. Claussens problem is that he trys to work batters for multiple looks at him in a game. Limiting that and sending him out there with just blowing people away is the perfect way to make him effective.

traderumor · 06-18-2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

We all know correlation may not imply causation, but I think it is fair to assume that Todd is not handling closing duties well.

No we don't. If the first half of your statement is true, which it is, Coffey pitching poorly because he is in the closer's role is not necessarily the case. He simply is pitching poorly of late. Why imply that it is due to choking?

traderumor · 06-18-2006, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topcat

I think Claussen could be a closer. Supposedly he has a bulldog mentality and frankly in one inning he could air it out and be damned with thinking beyond that point. Claussens problem is that he trys to work batters for multiple looks at him in a game. Limiting that and sending him out there with just blowing people away is the perfect way to make him effective.

I see no evidence that Claussen could air it out above 90 or 91, nor would he be someone that comes to mind when thinking of potential late inning relievers. For now, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that his arm has been barking for some time and has not allowed him to pitch the way he would like to. But, I would be more than happy to have better pitchers to fill the rotation going forward to push him into a long/middle relief or to deal him.

edabbs44 · 06-18-2006, 09:15 AM

Coffey wasn't in a closing situation yesterday and still got punished. How about Narron tells him that he isn't the closer anymore and still uses him in closer roles?

TheBigLebowski · 06-18-2006, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by traderumor

No we don't. If the first half of your statement is true, which it is, Coffey pitching poorly because he is in the closer's role is not necessarily the case. He simply is pitching poorly of late. Why imply that it is due to choking?

His ERA rose exponentially as soon as he assumed closers' duties. Could it be that he just happened to begin struggling that point in time? I suppose it is possible. My contention is that he probably would have maintained the same degree of effectiveness in June if he was still the 7th/8th inning setup man. There are a lot of really good setup men that just don't perform well as closers. LaTroy Hawkins immediately comes to mind. Bear in mind, I do acknowledge that 19 days may be a little too small of a sample size to make a final determination, but the evidence we do have at hand strongly suggests that Todd may not be comfortable in this role.

TheBigLebowski · 06-18-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Coffey wasn't in a closing situation yesterday and still got punished. How about Narron tells him that he isn't the closer anymore and still uses him in closer roles?

He was brought in to a tie game in the 9th inning. This is traditionally a situation in which your closer is summoned. We're arguing semantics here.

In my not-so-humble opinion, if Todd throws the 7th and 8th innings yesterday and we have a suitable 9th inning option (perhaps Belisle) we win that game 5-4. Instead, our miserable set-up guys allow runs in the 7th and 8th to tie the game, and Todd swings the gate open in the 9th (although, to be fair, if Brandon makes a good throw, inning would have likely ended in a DP - still doesn't change the fact that Todd got in trouble AGAIN. Defense just didn't bail him out like they did against MIL earlier in the week).

Kc61 · 06-18-2006, 09:52 AM

In hindsight, Coffey should have remained the set up man. It is not too late and he can be restored to that spot.

This leaves Weathers as closer. I can live with it as a stop gap. He did ok in that role last year. He was less effective this year, but the Coffey/Weathers thing was more effective than the current thing.

If folks want to try Belisle out as closer, fine with me, but I think his value is as a middle inning guy who can pitch 2 or even 3 innings. I don't think he has been sufficiently effective to be a closer. Still, anything is worth a try.

Mario-Rijo · 06-18-2006, 10:15 AM

I think the big issue w/ Coffey being the closer is that he hasn't been in enough games to remain effective. He has not pitched near the games that he had become accustomed to. In the long run if we can hang around for another 3 weeks or so w/o falling more than 5 or so back of 1st (which might be tough) and p/u a couple quality guys in June then this time off for Coffey will reap rewards late in the season!

Gallen5862 · 06-18-2006, 11:08 AM

Sauerbeck was released so no trade is required.

TheBigLebowski · 06-18-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gallen5862

Sauerbeck was released so no trade is required.

Thought he was DFA'd?

Either way, let's give him a shot.

Gallen5862 · 06-18-2006, 11:22 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/transactions
Cleveland Indians Released pitcher Scott Sauerbeck.
This transaction was on Wednesday June 14,2006.

06-18-2006, 01:03 AM	#1
TheBigLebowski Winning the Human Race Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Titletown, FL Posts: 3,819	Time to Rearrange the Seats on the Titanic Todd Coffey officially became the closer on May 31, the last day of the month. Todd's April ERA in 15.0 IP was 0.60 w/opposing batters hitting .246 against. Todd's May ERA in 15.0 IP was 1.80 w/opposing batters hitting .214 against. Todd's promotion (so to say) became effective on the first of June. Todd's June ERA in 7.1 IP is 7.60. Don't have the opp batt. avg yet. I would like to again remind the jury that Todd was the closer effective June 1. We all know correlation may not imply causation, but I think it is fair to assume that Todd is not handling closing duties well. Appears to me that he is more comfortable in a setup role. My Proposal: Make Matt Belisle the closer effective as soon as he is healthy enough to pitch. Put Todd back in the role he occupied in May/June. Float a PTBNL to the Indians for Scott Sauerbeck. Restrict the universe of PTBNL choices to Rick White, Chris Hammond, Richard White, Ricky White, and Christopher Hammond. I'd also float a PTBNL to the 'Backs for Russ Ortiz, and promptly place him in the pen, provided we do not have to acquire much of his salary. If the Sauerbeck trade does not go through, we need to reassign White and Hammond. Create a fan game that allows the fan to throw a baseball as hard as he/she can and, instead of having the fan guess how hard he/she threw the ball, he/she will guess what part of the White/Hammond anatomy he/she will hit. Bonus points are awarded for the left/right arm as applicable, and free beers to all if he/she hits a groin, so as to reduce the possibility that White and/or Hammond should reproduce. Think of it as flea market Darwinism. Should the player miss the target entirely, he/she has to pay double. With regards to Mercker, Mays, Yan, Weathers, so on and so forth..I really don't know. I can't even think of creative ways in which we could inflict pain upon them. Honestly, all jokes aside, there is not one single person in this bullpen in which I place any confidence. Actually, that's not completely true - I have a high degree of confidence in their ability to allow runs to score each and every time they appear in Reds' games. I never fully appreciated how important the bullpen is. When I was old enough to understand baseball, we had the Nasty Boys. Few years after they left, we still had a pretty good bullpen, although the rest of our team was lousy. I never understood what a priority it was. Don't think Jim Bowden or Dan O'Brien did either. __________________ Founder and Ruling Elite of the Derrick Robinson Fan Club. Limited amount of memberships available. Last edited by TheBigLebowski; 06-18-2006 at 01:17 AM.

06-18-2006, 02:12 AM	#2
dsmith421 Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,085	Re: Time to Rearrange the Seats on the Titanic I'm sorry, this team is soaring. We are rearranging seats on the Hindenburg.

06-18-2006, 06:03 AM	#4
GAC What Me Worry? Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Bellefontaine, Ohio Posts: 26,430	Re: Time to Rearrange the Seats on the Titanic Why don't we play musical chairs with the closer job? When the music stops, whoever gets the chair, gets the job. I don't see any answers to this BP problem within this organization right now. We've been "trying" guys - calling some up, taking chances on other team's DFAs, and experimenting till the test monkey is just about dead. This is a problem that may be fixed around the trading deadline, or it may have to wait till the off-season. And even then, we may have to dump some salary in order to add it. __________________ "panic" only comes from having real expectations

06-18-2006, 06:15 AM	#5
Topcat Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,929	Re: Time to Rearrange the Seats on the Titanic I think Claussen could be a closer. Supposedly he has a bulldog mentality and frankly in one inning he could air it out and be damned with thinking beyond that point. Claussens problem is that he trys to work batters for multiple looks at him in a game. Limiting that and sending him out there with just blowing people away is the perfect way to make him effective. __________________ 2006 Redzone mock Draftee's- 1(st) Daniel Bard(redsox), 1(st sup)( Jordan Walden (Angels), 2(nd) rd.- Zach Britton(Orioles), 3(rd) Blair Erickson(Cardinals), 3(rd) Tim Norton( Yankees),(cuz its a Tim Hortons thing Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory... lasts forever.

06-18-2006, 09:15 AM	#8
edabbs44 Box of Frogs Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: NJ Posts: 15,947	Re: Time to Rearrange the Seats on the Titanic Coffey wasn't in a closing situation yesterday and still got punished. How about Narron tells him that he isn't the closer anymore and still uses him in closer roles?

06-18-2006, 09:52 AM	#11
Kc61 Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,042	Re: Time to Rearrange the Seats on the Titanic In hindsight, Coffey should have remained the set up man. It is not too late and he can be restored to that spot. This leaves Weathers as closer. I can live with it as a stop gap. He did ok in that role last year. He was less effective this year, but the Coffey/Weathers thing was more effective than the current thing. If folks want to try Belisle out as closer, fine with me, but I think his value is as a middle inning guy who can pitch 2 or even 3 innings. I don't think he has been sufficiently effective to be a closer. Still, anything is worth a try.

06-18-2006, 10:15 AM	#12
Mario-Rijo HOF CLASS OF '12 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Springfield, Ohio Posts: 9,003	Re: Time to Rearrange the Seats on the Titanic I think the big issue w/ Coffey being the closer is that he hasn't been in enough games to remain effective. He has not pitched near the games that he had become accustomed to. In the long run if we can hang around for another 3 weeks or so w/o falling more than 5 or so back of 1st (which might be tough) and p/u a couple quality guys in June then this time off for Coffey will reap rewards late in the season! __________________ 2008 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2009 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2010 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." --Woody Hayes

06-18-2006, 11:08 AM	#13
Gallen5862 Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wilmington,NC Posts: 5,453	Re: Time to Rearrange the Seats on the Titanic Sauerbeck was released so no trade is required.

06-18-2006, 11:22 AM	#15
Gallen5862 Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Wilmington,NC Posts: 5,453	Re: Time to Rearrange the Seats on the Titanic http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/transactions Cleveland Indians Released pitcher Scott Sauerbeck. This transaction was on Wednesday June 14,2006.

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