RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion Stat I'd like to have.

 06-26-2006, 11:20 AM #1 pedro Please come again     Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: portland, oregon Posts: 14,737 Stat I'd like to have. There has been a lot of talk on this board concerning the value of a advancing runners that are already on base, and the relative value of a productive out vs a hit vs a walk. This got me thinking about a different way to measure a batters effectiveness in these situations towards the goal of advancing other runners. I'm really not sure is there is a way to get these stats publicy but the formula I am thinking about would have these variables. X = total runners on base when a batter was at the plate Y = total bases acquired by those runners as a function of the batters event (walk,hit, out etc) Z = total number of outs created in these situations Is there a way to play with these variable to come up with a way of measuring a players effectiveness at advancing other runners? Could it be as simple as Y-X-Z or would it need to be more complex? Thoughts? __________________ Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun Last edited by pedro; 06-26-2006 at 11:39 AM.
 06-27-2006, 12:28 AM #2 kheidg- Member     Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Minnesota Posts: 1,707 Re: Stat I'd like to have. I'd like to see that stat as well, but I'd have no clue where to start...
 06-27-2006, 12:34 AM #3 TOBTTReds Member   Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 3,983 Re: Stat I'd like to have. There is a table below to show the effectiveness of advancing runners. At first I misread your post and posted this response, sorry if it is off topic, but I'll leave it up so others can see. Last edited by TOBTTReds; 06-27-2006 at 12:53 AM.
 06-27-2006, 12:37 AM #4 TOBTTReds Member   Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 3,983 Re: Stat I'd like to have. The table is a little off. But here is the explanation. Explanation of these tables: For example, in innings where the team at bat has a man on second with no one out, they add an average of 1.051 (EFR) runs in that inning. According to this study, an attempt to steal second with no outs risks a loss of .576 runs (.815 - .239) for a gain of .236 runs (1.051 - .815). This means that stealing second with no outs must be successful more than 70.9% of the time to increase a team's expected runs. The formula is: (Start EFR - Fail EFR) divided by (Success EFR - Fail EFR) Table on left is total number of runs scored in those situations, table on right is percentage of times a team scores atleast one run in those situations. Code: ```Entry from February 1999 issue of By The Numbers, a publication by The Society for American Baseball Research Stolen Base Strategies Revisited EFR = Expected Future Runs Average runs scored in these situations Percentage of times a team scores at least one run Men on Number of Outs Men on Number of Outs FST 0 1 2 FST 0 1 2 - - - .452 .239 .091 - - - .261 .148 .061 x - - .815 .486 .210 x - - .424 .267 .124 - x - 1.051 .653 .313 - x - .608 .400 .216 x x - 1.384 .852 .404 x x - .617 .413 .219 - - x 1.278 .912 .358 - - x .819 .651 .269 x - x 1.638 1.131 .471 x - x .843 .646 .275 - x x 1.884 1.313 .576 - x x .841 .667 .274 x x x 2.176 1.481 .718 x x x .855 .664 .316``` I can't remember the exact time frame right now, but these number were taken from about 10 seasons worth of games, in the early 90's IIRC. So things have changed since then. Here's what we can see: Man on 1st, with no outs, a team scored atleast a run 42.4% of the time. In situations with a man on 2nd and 1 out (the result of a sac in many scenarios) the percentage actually drops to 40%. So judging by these numbers, a sacrifice is not beneficial. Last edited by TOBTTReds; 06-27-2006 at 12:51 AM.
 06-27-2006, 09:25 AM #5 Johnny Footstool Churlish     Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 13,769 Re: Stat I'd like to have. Just to reiterate a point: sacrificing a runner to second actually decreases a team's chances of scoring. __________________ "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful
 06-27-2006, 09:45 AM #6 RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus     Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 15,672 Re: Stat I'd like to have. I'd love to see this stat too Pedro, the problem is in the data collection. Even then, it would be complicated by things like certain situations (defensive indifference) and the speed of the runners ahead of you. I think the best way to do it is too come up with your basic assumptions about what "should" happen given a certain event in a given situation (ie. all runners advance 2 bases given a double). Then simply look at how many times a player performances each event in each situation and do the math. It would be unfair to penalize Austin Kearns for Scott Hatteberg being unable to score from second on a single... __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
 06-27-2006, 09:49 AM #7 BCubb2003 Haunted by walks   Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Syracuse Posts: 6,518 Re: Stat I'd like to have. Slightly different angle, but here's a chart that shows the Reds are second in the majors in "not losing runners." That is, not grounding into double plays and not getting caught stealing. http://baseballcrank.com/archives2/2...all_keepin.php

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