Theory regarding starting pitchers and mental makeup - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

redleg32 · 06-26-2006, 08:42 PM

No one could have predicted the success that Arroyo has had thusfar. In Boston he was an average pitcher at the bottom of their rotation, with no pressure on him to be a stopper. It is obvious to me that he HAS the makeup to be a top of the rotation leader. It would however be nice for us for him to be our #2. I have never been in the group of people who think you have to have a dominant #1 to be successful. I would rather have
4 #2's. It seems like to me this is not all that uncommon. Without researching, wasn't Jason Schmidt merely ok before he went to San Fran?
He had the pressure of being a dominant starter on his plate and his mental makeup allowed that to take place, and of course his stuff.
So I was wondering if this doesn't also happen in reverse. For instance, just from memory I think Steve Avery won 17 games his last year in Atlanta pitching from the four hole behind Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, with no pressure on him at all to be a stopper. He then signs a multi year deal with Boston to be their #1 or #2 pitcher and he basically falls on his face before he got hurt.
I now turn my attention to Oliver Perez whom has been thrust into the role of staff Ace only to fall on his face for the lowly Pirates. I've read about possible roids and HGH being his problem but I don't know that I beleive that.
I feel that he doesn't have the mental makeup to be a #1 pitcher on paper. But, I would like to see what he could do pitching behind Arroyo and Harang in the 3 hole, on a team that is in contention. If my theory is correct about mental makeup being as important as stuff, then he could be a gold mine, barring any physical problems that have not been reported.
Therefore, the trade that I would like to make before the trade deadline is with the Pirates. I'm not totally sure as to what they need in return, but I would like get Perez, Domaso Marte, and Roberto Hernandez from them.
Maybe we send Votto, Denorfia, Belisle, Germano, Bergolla,Syzmanski?
I think it would be well worth the chance. Marte and Hernandez dramatically improve our bullpen. I would also like to get Dessens and Affeldt from the Royals. Anyway I would like to hear reply's on mental makeup and how you guys feel about the importance.

Razor Shines · 06-26-2006, 11:24 PM

Arroyo did lead the Red Sox in quality starts last season. I don't know how much that means, but I just thought I'd put it out there.

RedLegSuperStar · 06-26-2006, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redleg32

No one could have predicted the success that Arroyo has had thusfar. In Boston he was an average pitcher at the bottom of their rotation, with no pressure on him to be a stopper. It is obvious to me that he HAS the makeup to be a top of the rotation leader. It would however be nice for us for him to be our #2. I have never been in the group of people who think you have to have a dominant #1 to be successful. I would rather have
4 #2's. It seems like to me this is not all that uncommon. Without researching, wasn't Jason Schmidt merely ok before he went to San Fran?
He had the pressure of being a dominant starter on his plate and his mental makeup allowed that to take place, and of course his stuff.
So I was wondering if this doesn't also happen in reverse. For instance, just from memory I think Steve Avery won 17 games his last year in Atlanta pitching from the four hole behind Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, with no pressure on him at all to be a stopper. He then signs a multi year deal with Boston to be their #1 or #2 pitcher and he basically falls on his face before he got hurt.
I now turn my attention to Oliver Perez whom has been thrust into the role of staff Ace only to fall on his face for the lowly Pirates. I've read about possible roids and HGH being his problem but I don't know that I beleive that.
I feel that he doesn't have the mental makeup to be a #1 pitcher on paper. But, I would like to see what he could do pitching behind Arroyo and Harang in the 3 hole, on a team that is in contention. If my theory is correct about mental makeup being as important as stuff, then he could be a gold mine, barring any physical problems that have not been reported.
Therefore, the trade that I would like to make before the trade deadline is with the Pirates. I'm not totally sure as to what they need in return, but I would like get Perez, Domaso Marte, and Roberto Hernandez from them.
Maybe we send Votto, Denorfia, Belisle, Germano, Bergolla,Syzmanski?
I think it would be well worth the chance. Marte and Hernandez dramatically improve our bullpen. I would also like to get Dessens and Affeldt from the Royals. Anyway I would like to hear reply's on mental makeup and how you guys feel about the importance.

You think they will cut us some slack for the Casey/Williams deal?

savafan · 06-26-2006, 11:35 PM

If Perez came cheap, I'd give it a shot.

NastyBoy · 06-27-2006, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redleg32

I now turn my attention to Oliver Perez whom has been thrust into the role of staff Ace only to fall on his face for the lowly Pirates. I've read about possible roids and HGH being his problem but I don't know that I beleive that.
I feel that he doesn't have the mental makeup to be a #1 pitcher on paper.

Losing 7 mph off your 95 mph fastball my have something to do with it as well. Where did his fastball go?

KronoRed · 06-27-2006, 12:46 AM

I think he's hurt and not telling anyone

cincyinco · 06-27-2006, 03:09 AM

He's been hurt in the past... wouldn't surprise me. When this kid has his stuff, he's an ace. He's very on again off again though, kinda like brett saberhagen.. heh.

redleg32 · 06-27-2006, 06:59 PM

But if you will look he has had two really good games this year. One against the Cards and one against us. When he started against the Reds he was consistently in the low 90's , and I recall seeing a couple of 95's. Just wondering if he doesn't rev it up a bit for certain teams. That could be a mental thing. I would say it's hard to get "pumped up" when you already think your going to lose.

macro · 06-28-2006, 09:33 AM

A pitcher obviously has to have the talent, but you're right that the mental makeup is vital, too. Baseball history is littered with pitchers and position players alike that couldn't get over some mental hump.

I think you may be onto something in considering pitchers who did well then faltered when put under the spotlight of being at the top of the rotation. I'd take a chance on Perez, depending on the price.

bottom_feeder · 06-28-2006, 10:06 PM

I'd love to grab Perez if the Pirates are going to give him away. Much better chance of a turnaround than Yan.

06-26-2006, 11:35 PM	#4
savafan Maple SERP Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 17,485	Re: theory If Perez came cheap, I'd give it a shot. __________________ This is the Cal Ripkin Jr. of typos. If you ask me to join your fantasy baseball league and I select Legolas in the first round, don't be angry at me. It's not my fault I've read up on the players and you haven't.

06-27-2006, 12:46 AM	#6
KronoRed The Lineups stink. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: West N. Carolina Posts: 55,342	Re: theory I think he's hurt and not telling anyone __________________ Go Gators!

06-27-2006, 03:09 AM	#7
cincyinco We are the angry mob Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: The 303 Posts: 2,479	Re: theory He's been hurt in the past... wouldn't surprise me. When this kid has his stuff, he's an ace. He's very on again off again though, kinda like brett saberhagen.. heh. __________________ "I hate to advocate chemicals, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone... But they've always worked for me." -Hunter S. Thompson

06-27-2006, 06:59 PM	#8
redleg32 Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: greensburg ky Posts: 105	Re: theory But if you will look he has had two really good games this year. One against the Cards and one against us. When he started against the Reds he was consistently in the low 90's , and I recall seeing a couple of 95's. Just wondering if he doesn't rev it up a bit for certain teams. That could be a mental thing. I would say it's hard to get "pumped up" when you already think your going to lose. __________________ And this one belongs to the Reds!

06-28-2006, 09:33 AM	#9
macro Just The Big Picture Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: The Bluegrass State Posts: 6,150	Re: theory A pitcher obviously has to have the talent, but you're right that the mental makeup is vital, too. Baseball history is littered with pitchers and position players alike that couldn't get over some mental hump. I think you may be onto something in considering pitchers who did well then faltered when put under the spotlight of being at the top of the rotation. I'd take a chance on Perez, depending on the price. __________________ *Help stamp out, eliminate, and do away with redundancy.*

06-26-2006, 08:42 PM	#1
redleg32 Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: greensburg ky Posts: 105	Theory regarding starting pitchers and mental makeup No one could have predicted the success that Arroyo has had thusfar. In Boston he was an average pitcher at the bottom of their rotation, with no pressure on him to be a stopper. It is obvious to me that he HAS the makeup to be a top of the rotation leader. It would however be nice for us for him to be our #2. I have never been in the group of people who think you have to have a dominant #1 to be successful. I would rather have 4 #2's. It seems like to me this is not all that uncommon. Without researching, wasn't Jason Schmidt merely ok before he went to San Fran? He had the pressure of being a dominant starter on his plate and his mental makeup allowed that to take place, and of course his stuff. So I was wondering if this doesn't also happen in reverse. For instance, just from memory I think Steve Avery won 17 games his last year in Atlanta pitching from the four hole behind Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, with no pressure on him at all to be a stopper. He then signs a multi year deal with Boston to be their #1 or #2 pitcher and he basically falls on his face before he got hurt. I now turn my attention to Oliver Perez whom has been thrust into the role of staff Ace only to fall on his face for the lowly Pirates. I've read about possible roids and HGH being his problem but I don't know that I beleive that. I feel that he doesn't have the mental makeup to be a #1 pitcher on paper. But, I would like to see what he could do pitching behind Arroyo and Harang in the 3 hole, on a team that is in contention. If my theory is correct about mental makeup being as important as stuff, then he could be a gold mine, barring any physical problems that have not been reported. Therefore, the trade that I would like to make before the trade deadline is with the Pirates. I'm not totally sure as to what they need in return, but I would like get Perez, Domaso Marte, and Roberto Hernandez from them. Maybe we send Votto, Denorfia, Belisle, Germano, Bergolla,Syzmanski? I think it would be well worth the chance. Marte and Hernandez dramatically improve our bullpen. I would also like to get Dessens and Affeldt from the Royals. Anyway I would like to hear reply's on mental makeup and how you guys feel about the importance. __________________ And this one belongs to the Reds!

06-26-2006, 11:24 PM	#2
Razor Shines Licking County Settlers Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 6,174	Re: theory Arroyo did lead the Red Sox in quality starts last season. I don't know how much that means, but I just thought I'd put it out there. __________________ "three dimes, a one hundred dollar bill and and 87 ones..."

06-28-2006, 10:06 PM	#10
bottom_feeder Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 191	Re: Theory regarding starting pitchers and mental makeup I'd love to grab Perez if the Pirates are going to give him away. Much better chance of a turnaround than Yan.

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