Went to the Louisville game today (8-7 LOSS) - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Tornon · 07-03-2006, 11:43 PM

So I went to watch the Bats play the Clippers here in Columbus & to see the fireworks afterwards, and I have a couple observations from the game.

- It troubles me that Edwin was starting at first base, maybe he needs to learn a new position since Aurilia possibly has taken his? Maybe Hatteberg is gonna be traded? Who knows. Edwin didn't have his best day at the plate, I believe he was 1-4 or 1-5 but nonetheless I hope we see him back up soon.

- Justin Germano got ROCKED, especially for the first 3 innings there were balls hit hard all over the place. He did settle down for 2 innings before he got hit hard in the 6th again. It appeared he didn't have his best control as I know he is a control pitcher and he was continuously falling behind the batters. I don't feel too bad though because the last time I went to a game I saw Jeremy Sowers get rocked so the Clippers do have the potential to do that to you.

- Dewayne Wise has a cannon, he should have had two runners thrown out at the plate except that one throw was off line a little and the other throw was cut by Encarnacion (I seem to remember the Reds themselves having this kind of trouble earlier)

- Ryan Jorgenson has some pop in his bat (hit a long HR to left-center), if we ever need another catcher that can hit we can always try him out. However, defense.. not so good there were two or three plays at the plate and he didn't hold on to the ball once. Each time had he held the ball, the runner was out by plenty.

- Chris Denorfia can do anything. He had a runner gunned down at the plate on a basehit but like I mentioned before, the catcher could not hold on to the ball. Another play he made a great running catch in deep center field. I was also amazed at how close he made a play at first when hitting on a chopper to second base.. he can fly.

- William Bergolla has some kind of range. There was a runner on first and the batter hit a grounder that I thought for sure was going in to right and the runner must have thought the same thing. However, Bergolla cut it off, bobbled it so he had no shot at the hitter but then threw the runner out trying to go to third.

- Ryan Wagner got hit hard again. Not that anything different was expected with the way this year has gone for him, but I was hoping that this could be the night he turned it around. He started off the 8th and gave up a grounder to short that Olmedo couldn't quite make the throw in time, the next batter hit a pop up, but for the rest of the inning everything was hit hard off him. He ended up giving up 2 runs, blowing the save, and taking the loss. His velocity wasn't down either as a lot of pitcher's are when they are hurt, he was consistently hitting 92-93. I have no clue what could be wrong with him.

- Mike Venafro was solid for the 1 2/3 innings that he pitched; he helped bail out Germano in the 6th and pitched a scoreless 7th. Maybe he could help us up here? Might as well keep throwing stuff at the wall.

All in all, it was a great game to watch. I felt like I was watching a Reds game; send pitchers out there that give up a bunch of runs and have the offense come right back and keep them in the game.

Aronchis · 07-04-2006, 05:50 AM

There is nothing wrong with Wagner, he simply has no other pitch other than the slider. His arm is flat, no spring or movement on his fastball. Once teams learned to stay off his slider and timed his fastball, his career as a major leaguer was toast. Simply a bad bad bad scouting job(surprise surprise from the Bowden era slop) by the Reds. He was fluff that can't pitch in professional ball like Ryan Leaf couldn't play QB in the NFL.

joshnky · 07-04-2006, 09:40 AM

Maybe its time to send Wagner to AA and bring up one of the AA relievers. It seems like he hasn't pitched well all year and facing easier hitters who haven't seen him might help his confidence. The way things are going with him now something has to be done.

LoganBuck · 07-05-2006, 12:06 AM

Why can't Wagner learn a changeup or a curve? He obviously has a great slider, why not learn a couple other off speed pitches to throw from the same arm slot? It would do wonders for his flat fastball.

Superdude · 07-05-2006, 11:56 AM

Quote:

It would do wonders for his flat fastball.

Unless I've gone crazy, I remeber Wagner always having tons of movement on his fastball. What's up with you guys and wagner's stuff. A low 90's heater and dirty slider is definitely enough to get major league hitter's out.

Joseph · 07-05-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdude

Unless I've gone crazy, I remeber Wagner always having tons of movement on his fastball. What's up with you guys and wagner's stuff. A low 90's heater and dirty slider is definitely enough to get major league hitter's out.

Then why can't he get out minor league hitters?

Doc. Scott · 07-05-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdude

Unless I've gone crazy, I remeber Wagner always having tons of movement on his fastball. What's up with you guys and wagner's stuff. A low 90's heater and dirty slider is definitely enough to get major league hitter's out.

Just a lot of talking out of the wrong end going on, myself included sometimes.

LoganBuck · 07-05-2006, 08:26 PM

The hitters are sitting on his fastball, and he can't consistently throw that slider for strikes. What else would you call that?

07-03-2006, 11:43 PM	#1
Tornon Who, What, Where, When? Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,531	Went to the Louisville game today (8-7 LOSS) So I went to watch the Bats play the Clippers here in Columbus & to see the fireworks afterwards, and I have a couple observations from the game. - It troubles me that Edwin was starting at first base, maybe he needs to learn a new position since Aurilia possibly has taken his? Maybe Hatteberg is gonna be traded? Who knows. Edwin didn't have his best day at the plate, I believe he was 1-4 or 1-5 but nonetheless I hope we see him back up soon. - Justin Germano got ROCKED, especially for the first 3 innings there were balls hit hard all over the place. He did settle down for 2 innings before he got hit hard in the 6th again. It appeared he didn't have his best control as I know he is a control pitcher and he was continuously falling behind the batters. I don't feel too bad though because the last time I went to a game I saw Jeremy Sowers get rocked so the Clippers do have the potential to do that to you. - Dewayne Wise has a cannon, he should have had two runners thrown out at the plate except that one throw was off line a little and the other throw was cut by Encarnacion (I seem to remember the Reds themselves having this kind of trouble earlier) - Ryan Jorgenson has some pop in his bat (hit a long HR to left-center), if we ever need another catcher that can hit we can always try him out. However, defense.. not so good there were two or three plays at the plate and he didn't hold on to the ball once. Each time had he held the ball, the runner was out by plenty. - Chris Denorfia can do anything. He had a runner gunned down at the plate on a basehit but like I mentioned before, the catcher could not hold on to the ball. Another play he made a great running catch in deep center field. I was also amazed at how close he made a play at first when hitting on a chopper to second base.. he can fly. - William Bergolla has some kind of range. There was a runner on first and the batter hit a grounder that I thought for sure was going in to right and the runner must have thought the same thing. However, Bergolla cut it off, bobbled it so he had no shot at the hitter but then threw the runner out trying to go to third. - Ryan Wagner got hit hard again. Not that anything different was expected with the way this year has gone for him, but I was hoping that this could be the night he turned it around. He started off the 8th and gave up a grounder to short that Olmedo couldn't quite make the throw in time, the next batter hit a pop up, but for the rest of the inning everything was hit hard off him. He ended up giving up 2 runs, blowing the save, and taking the loss. His velocity wasn't down either as a lot of pitcher's are when they are hurt, he was consistently hitting 92-93. I have no clue what could be wrong with him. - Mike Venafro was solid for the 1 2/3 innings that he pitched; he helped bail out Germano in the 6th and pitched a scoreless 7th. Maybe he could help us up here? Might as well keep throwing stuff at the wall. All in all, it was a great game to watch. I felt like I was watching a Reds game; send pitchers out there that give up a bunch of runs and have the offense come right back and keep them in the game. Last edited by Tornon; 07-04-2006 at 12:33 AM.

07-04-2006, 05:50 AM	#2
Aronchis Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 4,673	Re: Went to the Louisville game today (8-7 LOSS) There is nothing wrong with Wagner, he simply has no other pitch other than the slider. His arm is flat, no spring or movement on his fastball. Once teams learned to stay off his slider and timed his fastball, his career as a major leaguer was toast. Simply a bad bad bad scouting job(surprise surprise from the Bowden era slop) by the Reds. He was fluff that can't pitch in professional ball like Ryan Leaf couldn't play QB in the NFL.

07-04-2006, 09:40 AM	#3
joshnky Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 1,591	Re: Went to the Louisville game today (8-7 LOSS) Maybe its time to send Wagner to AA and bring up one of the AA relievers. It seems like he hasn't pitched well all year and facing easier hitters who haven't seen him might help his confidence. The way things are going with him now something has to be done.

07-05-2006, 12:06 AM	#4
LoganBuck I hate the Cubs Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,580	Re: Went to the Louisville game today (8-7 LOSS) Why can't Wagner learn a changeup or a curve? He obviously has a great slider, why not learn a couple other off speed pitches to throw from the same arm slot? It would do wonders for his flat fastball. __________________ Whenever you get mad over a called strike or ball on a close pitch, it's the equivalent of being mad at the QB pump-faking one time before throwing a pass in your average NFL game. ---Caveat Emperor

07-05-2006, 08:26 PM	#8
LoganBuck I hate the Cubs Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,580	Re: Went to the Louisville game today (8-7 LOSS) The hitters are sitting on his fastball, and he can't consistently throw that slider for strikes. What else would you call that? __________________ Whenever you get mad over a called strike or ball on a close pitch, it's the equivalent of being mad at the QB pump-faking one time before throwing a pass in your average NFL game. ---Caveat Emperor

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