Seaver-Bench: Greatest. Battery. Ever.?

[SteveJRogers]

Just thinking about this, Tom Seaver and Johnny Bench just might be the greatest battery to ever perform.

Trying to come up with others:

Mickey Cochrane-Lefty Grove on the 1930 A's

Warren Spahn and Yogi Berra on the 1965 Mets actually does not count, Yogi played in only 4 games, only one of which Spahn pitched and Yogi appeared as a pinch hitter, check that out at ultimatemets.com

Ivan Rodriguez did catch Nolan Ryan early in Rodriguez's career (though considering Pudge was a juicier should he still be that highly regarded)

Mike Piazza-Pedro Martinez does count on last years Mets (more smoke involved with Pudge than with Piazza)

Heh, Carlton Fisk caught Seaver as a White Sox, as well as Steve Carlton guess they qualify

Berra-Ford for sheer World Series dominance

Hmmm, any more...

[Redhook]

Rick White - Jason LaRue

[MrCinatit]

Bill Dickey and Lefty Gomez come to mind.

The Crawford Giants had Josh Gibson catching Satchel Paige for a bit

[redsfan4445]

Being a huge fan of Nolan Ryan, I always wanted the BRM to go after him.. i can only imagine what Bench and Nolan could have done. And how many more games Nolan Ryan would have Won as a Red (Nolan was asked a few years back if their was one team he always wanted to play with and he said "The Big Red Machine")

I named my youngest Nolan Ryan after him..

But I was VERY happy and remeber the night the Trade of Seaver to the reds was made.. I always wonder if the Reds would have kept Perez for 1977 instead of Driessen???

[Cyclone792]

Off the top of my head, the greatest battery ever is likely Lefty Grove and Mickey Cochrane for both overall career greatness and as a single season battery.

Lefty Grove is among the greatest two or three pitchers in baseball history, and some believe he is the greatest pitcher in history (I'll take Walter Johnson myself, but I've got Grove ranked third behind only Johnson and Clemens). Mickey Cochrane is also among the greatest catchers ever to play the game, and I've got him ranked fifth behind only Gibson, Bench, Berra and Piazza. Like Grove, Cochrane also has an argument as being the greatest ever at his position, albeit his argument for being the greatest catcher ever is much weaker than Grove's argument for being the greatest pitcher ever, IMO.

Now for single season, give me Lefty Grove/Mickey Cochrane in 1931.

Grove went 31-4 with a 2.06 ERA and 75 RSAA in 289 innings in 1931, and that season is among some of the greatest single seasons by any pitcher in baseball history. That same season, Mickey Cochrane hit .349/.423/.553 for the A's, putting up 47 RCAA and a 149 OPS+.

How about win shares? Grove had an incredible 42 win shares in 1931, his career high in win shares, while Cochrane posted 28 win shares behind the plate that season (Cochrane had 31 win shares in 1930 and 30 win shares in 1932).

LEFTY GROVE

GIVEN NAME: Robert Moses Grove
BORN: 3/6/1900  Lonaconing, Maryland  DIED: 5/22/1975  Norwalk, Ohio
BAT: L  THROW: L  HEIGHT: 6'3"  WEIGHT: 190  MLB DEBUT: 4/14/1925

YEAR TEAM         AGE W   L   PCT   G    GS  CG  SV  GF  IP     H    R    ER   BB   SO    ERA  RSAA
1925 A's          25  10  12  .455   45  18   5   1  12  197    207  120  104  131  116   4.75   -7 
1926 A's          26  13  13  .500   45  33  20   6   9  258    227   97   72  101  194   2.51   62 
1927 A's          27  20  13  .606   51  28  14   9  18  262    251  116   93   79  174   3.19   20 
1928 A's          28  24   8  .750   39  31  24   4   6  262    228   93   75   64  183   2.58   43 
1929 A's          29  20   6  .769   42  37  21   4   5  275    278  104   86   81  170   2.81   53 
1930 A's          30  28   5  .848   50  32  22   9  17  291    273  101   82   60  209   2.54   64 
1931 A's          31  31   4  .886   41  30  27   5  10  289    249   84   66   62  175   2.06   75 
1932 A's          32  25  10  .714   44  30  27   7  13  292    269  101   92   79  188   2.84   75 
1933 A's          33  24   8  .750   45  28  21   6  16  275    280  113   98   83  114   3.21   25 
1934 Red Sox      34   8   8  .500   22  12   5   0   6  109    149   84   79   32   43   6.52  -21 
1935 Red Sox      35  20  12  .625   35  30  23   1   4  273    269  105   82   65  121   2.70   65 
1936 Red Sox      36  17  12  .586   35  30  22   2   3  253    237   90   79   65  130   2.81   70 
1937 Red Sox      37  17   9  .654   32  32  21   0   0  262    269  101   88   83  153   3.02   51 
1938 Red Sox      38  14   4  .778   24  21  12   1   3  164    169   65   56   52   99   3.07   32 
1939 Red Sox      39  15   4  .789   23  23  17   0   0  191    180   63   54   58   81   2.54   54 
1940 Red Sox      40   7   6  .538   22  21   9   0   1  153    159   73   68   50   62   4.00    8 
1941 Red Sox      41   7   7  .500   21  21  10   0   0  134    155   84   65   42   54   4.37   -1 
     TOTALS          300 141  .680  616 457 300  55 123 3940   3849 1594 1339 1187 2266   3.06  668 
     LG AVERAGE      220 220  .500          210  20     3940   4328 2267 1933 1572 1422   4.42    0 

YEAR TEAM          HR  H/9   BR/9  SO/9  BB/9  SO/BB SHO WP  IBB HBP BFP   BK  NW  NL
1925 A's           11  9.46 15.67  5.30  5.98  0.89   0   9   0   5   908  0  10  12 
1926 A's            6  7.92 11.65  6.77  3.52  1.92   1   5   0   6  1072  0  20   6 
1927 A's            6  8.62 11.40  5.98  2.71  2.20   1   5   0   2  1106  1  19  14 
1928 A's           10  7.83 10.06  6.29  2.20  2.86   4   4   0   1  1075  0  22  10 
1929 A's            8  9.10 11.85  5.56  2.65  2.10   2   8   0   3  1168  0  18   8 
1930 A's            8  8.44 10.45  6.46  1.86  3.48   2   2   0   5  1191  0  24   9
1931 A's           10  7.75  9.72  5.45  1.93  2.82   4   2   0   1  1160  0  28   7 
1932 A's           13  8.29 10.76  5.79  2.43  2.38   4   0   0   1  1207  0  26   9 
1933 A's           12  9.16 12.01  3.73  2.72  1.37   2   1   0   4  1173  0  19  13 
1934 Red Sox        5 12.30 15.03  3.55  2.64  1.34   0   1   0   1   506  0   6  10 
1935 Red Sox        6  8.87 11.11  3.99  2.14  1.86   2   2   0   3  1137  0  24   8 
1936 Red Sox       14  8.43 10.89  4.62  2.31  2.00   6   0   0   4  1049  0  22   7 
1937 Red Sox        9  9.24 12.13  5.26  2.85  1.84   3   5   0   1  1127  0  18   8 
1938 Red Sox        8  9.27 12.18  5.43  2.85  1.90   1   3   0   1   706  0  13   5 
1939 Red Sox        8  8.48 11.26  3.82  2.73  1.40   2   0   0   1   798  0  15   4 
1940 Red Sox       20  9.35 12.35  3.65  2.94  1.24   1   1   0   1   652  0   7   6 
1941 Red Sox        8 10.41 13.37  3.63  2.82  1.29   0   3   0   2   598  0   7   7 
     TOTALS       162  8.79 11.60  5.18  2.71  1.91  35  51   0  42 16633  1 298 143 
     LG AVERAGE   232  9.89 13.63  3.25  3.59  0.90  20  72   0  69 17449  8

MICKEY COCHRANE

GIVEN NAME: Gordon Stanley Cochrane
BORN: 4/6/1903  Bridgewater, Massachusetts  DIED: 6/28/1962  Lake Forest, Illinois
BAT: L  THROW: R  HEIGHT: 5'10"  WEIGHT: 180  MLB DEBUT: 4/14/1925
CAREER GAMES BY POSITION:  LF: 1  C: 1451  

YEAR TEAM         AGE G    AB    R    H    2B  3B  HR   HR%   RBI  BB   SO   SB   CS  AVG   SLG  OBA   OPS
1925 A's          22  134   420   69  139  21   5   6   1.43   55   44   19    7   4  .331  .448  .397  .845 
1926 A's          23  120   370   50  101   8   9   8   2.16   47   56   15    5   2  .273  .408  .369  .777 
1927 A's          24  126   432   80  146  20   6  12   2.78   80   50    7    9   6  .338  .495  .409  .904 
1928 A's          25  131   468   92  137  26  12  10   2.14   57   76   25    7   7  .293  .464  .395  .859 
1929 A's          26  135   514  113  170  37   8   7   1.36   95   69    8    7   6  .331  .475  .412  .887 
1930 A's          27  130   487  110  174  42   5  10   2.05   85   55   18    5   0  .357  .526  .424  .949 
1931 A's          28  122   459   87  160  31   6  17   3.70   89   56   21    2   3  .349  .553  .423  .976 
1932 A's          29  139   518  118  152  35   4  23   4.44  112  100   22    0   1  .293  .510  .412  .921 
1933 A's          30  130   429  104  138  30   4  15   3.50   60  106   22    8   6  .322  .515  .459  .974 
1934 Tigers       31  129   437   74  140  32   1   2   0.46   76   78   26    8   4  .320  .412  .428  .840 
1935 Tigers       32  115   411   93  131  33   3   5   1.22   47   96   15    5   5  .319  .450  .452  .902 
1936 Tigers       33   44   126   24   34   8   0   2   1.59   17   46   15    1   1  .270  .381  .465  .846 
1937 Tigers       34   27    98   27   30  10   1   2   2.04   12   25    4    0   1  .306  .490  .452  .941 
     TOTALS          1482  5169 1041 1652 333  64 119   2.30  832  857  217   64  46  .320  .478  .419  .897 
     LG AVERAGE            4983  756 1445 272  70  73   1.47  695  516  380   78  56  .290  .416  .359  .776 
     POS AVERAGE           4899  590 1327 238  48  46   0.93  632  532  340   40  32  .271  .367  .345  .712 

YEAR TEAM          RC   RCAA  RCAP OWP   RC/G   TB   EBH  ISO   SEC  BPA  IBB HBP SAC  SF GIDP OUTS  PA   POS
1925 A's            77   13   21  .582   6.83  188   32  .117  .238  .509   0   2   8   0   0   293   474  C
1926 A's            60  -10    1  .429   5.25  151   25  .135  .300  .493   0   0  26   0   0   297   452  C
1927 A's            90   28   35  .666   7.43  214   38  .157  .294  .556   0   2  23   0   0   315   507  C
1928 A's            90   18   32  .599   6.52  217   48  .171  .348  .541   0   3  21   0   0   359   568  C
1929 A's           105   21   39  .602   7.36  244   52  .144  .292  .540   0   2  21   0   0   371   606  C
1930 A's           113   42   56  .703   8.88  256   57  .168  .292  .584   0   1  18   0   0   331   561  C
1931 A's           111   47   56  .732   9.46  254   54  .205  .331  .602   0   3   3   0   0   305   521  C
1932 A's           118   27   38  .616   8.29  264   62  .216  .409  .590   0   4   3   0   0   370   625  C
1933 A's           111   53   59  .769   9.59  221   49  .193  .459  .617   0   3   4   0   0   301   542  C
1934 Tigers         85   21   34  .627   7.22  180   35  .092  .288  .513   0   4   5   0   0   306   524  C
1935 Tigers         93   33   38  .688   8.17  185   41  .131  .377  .558   0   4  11   0   0   296   522  C
1936 Tigers         27    4    8  .574   7.09   48   10  .111  .484  .547   0   0   6   0   0    99   178  C
1937 Tigers         24    6    8  .627   8.79   48   13  .184  .439  .589   0   1   2   0   0    71   126  C
     TOTALS       1104  303  425  .643   7.73 2470  516  .158  .336  .557   0  29 151   0   0  3714  6206 
     LG AVERAGE    788    0    0  .500   5.52 2075  415  .127  .246  .478   0  24 120   0   0  3714  5643 
     POS AVERAGE   668 -124    0  .423   4.68 1798  332  .096  .213  .433   0  22 110   0   0  3714  5563

[Unassisted]

My recollection is that both were a couple of years past their prime when they were on the same roster. That was a long time ago, so I am prepared to be proven wrong with statistics.

[IowaRed]

Mickey Cochrane-Lefty Grove
Ernie Lombardi-Carl Hubbell, Warren Spahn
Roy Campanella-Sandy Koufax

*In 1930 Babe Ruth pitched 1 game for the Yankees, the catcher on that team was Bill Dickey so that was likely the greatest hitting battery of all-time.

[edabbs44]

Koufax/Campanella is probably up there.

[westofyou]

Tim Keefe - Buck Ewing
John Clarkson - King Kelly

[westofyou]

Gabby Hartnett - Pete Alexander

[SteveJRogers]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Tim Keefe - Buck Ewing
John Clarkson - King Kelly

Pulling out the 19th Century on us huh

[Phhhl]

It's difficult to imagine a better battery, even at the advanced age they worked together. If it's narrowed down to the modern era, I don't think there is any question that Seaver/Bench is the best.

[Dan]

Did Josh Gibson ever catch Satchel Paige?

/not looking over his shoulder

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Koufax/Campanella is probably up there.

They only had Koufax's rookie season together. Hard to say how more years Campenella would have caught. As I recall, he was fairly older when the color line was broken (not Satchel Paige old, but in his late 20's, as I recall).

[redsmetz]

How about Christy Mathewson and Roger Bresnahan?

And I seem to recall that Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson were teammates on the Pittsburgh Crawfords during the 30's. That might be the closest to Seaver and Bench.

I still pinch myself that Tom Seaver played for the Reds for five seasons. He said yesterday it resurrected his career and I always recognized you were seeing one of the best batteries in history. While Cincinnat has had numerous one-time Cy Young winners pitch for the Reds (Seaver included), he was robbed in '81 and possibly in '77, the year he came over. A very good trade in deed.