Jerry Narron.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by RoyalFlush

Sure you have, starting a $13M player in CF and going Ofer 5 and his sidekick starting and going Ofer 6.

Griffey is making $9 million this season.

[RedsFanBrooklyn]

Originally Posted by jimbo

I may be in the minority, but I don't think it was the unsound decision that everyone claims it to be. The key to walking Howard in that situation is that you have a reliever coming to the plate next who has only 3 at-bats the entire year. I don't think Narron does it if any position player was coming up next. You strike out the pitcher, which didn't happen but you got the out, and you can get out of the inning with a ground ball.

Agreed.

I can't blame folks for being mad, especially given that the winning run came in on a single.

However, I sincerely doubt EZ's chances to get Howard out 9 out of 10 times in that situation.

[RedsFanatic]

Originally Posted by RedsFanBrooklyn

Agreed.

I can't blame folks for being mad, especially given that the winning run came in on a single.

However, I sincerely doubt EZ's chances to get Howard out 9 out of 10 times in that situation.

Howard is hitting around .290. So the odds are in Elizardo's favor to get him out.

[marcshoe]

As to the odds of the inning playing out the way Narron thought it might, Rowand had grounded into double plays 10 times in around 400 plate appearances this year.

There are other scenarios that would have kept a run from scoring, but that's the one narron seemed to be counting on. I wonder what the percentages are for runs scoring from third with no out?

[RedsFanBrooklyn]

Originally Posted by RedsFanatic

Howard is hitting around .290. So the odds are in Elizardo's favor to get him out.

Very true.

He also got one out in the inning: the pitcher. So four others beat those odds.

[KYRed]

Originally Posted by RedsFanBrooklyn

Very true.

He also got one out in the inning: the pitcher. So four others beat those odds.

There weren't really 4 that "beat the odds" because Howard was given 1st base, he didn't earn it.

This decision may not be 100%, but it's about 99.95%. I'm not sure another big league manager walks Howard there.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by KYRed

This decision may not be 100%, but it's about 99.95%. I'm not sure another big league manager walks Howard there.

I'd agree if there was anyone besides a relief pitcher up next, that was the key behind the decision.

[TOBTTReds]

Here's the difference between bad plays, and bad moves.

Bad plays happen when guys mechanically mis-execute a play (bad throw, missed catch, strikeouts).

Bad moves are made with the intention of making the move. Dunn didn't come to the plate hoping to strikeout. But...

Narron did:
Take out his 3 rbi's and 2 HR's to put in a fielder, at probably the least important position in the field instead of moving Freel to center and taking out Griffey (atleast Griffey is horrible in the field and plate).

Walk RH with men on 1st and 2nd with 0 outs in the 14th. Is he Babe Ruth x 2???

EDIT: How about having Dunn bunt with 2 on and 0 out in extras? I kind of wanted that, especially the way he was swinging. That is a toss up, but I'll add it.

---------

I'm not excusing the bad plays, but I'm saying they are made with effort, where as a bad move is made intentionally. Narron is mysterious to me.

[RedsFanatic]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

Here's the difference between bad plays, and bad moves.

Bad plays happen when guys mechanically mis-execute a play (bad throw, missed catch, strikeouts).

Bad moves are made with the intention of making the move. Dunn didn't come to the plate hoping to strikeout. But...

Narron did:
Take out his 3 rbi's and 2 HR's to put in a fielder, at probably the least important position in the field instead of moving Freel to center and taking out Griffey (atleast Griffey is horrible in the field and plate).

Walk RH with men on 1st and 2nd with 0 outs in the 14th. Is he Babe Ruth x 2???

---------

I'm not excusing the bad plays, but I'm saying they are made with effort, where as a bad move is made intentionally. Narron is mysterious to me.

Keep in mind that Jerry only let Castro play for a half of an inning

[TOBTTReds]

I have no idea how this team is in first still. It is unreal. Good comebacks I guess.

Narron is like a Resume. It doesn't get you the job, and can only keep you from getting it.

Narron won't get you the win, he can only keep you from winning.

[Billy_Bearcat]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

EDIT: How about having Dunn bunt with 2 on and 0 out in extras? I kind of wanted that, especially the way he was swinging. That is a toss up, but I'll add it.

That's an excellent point. Since when did certain players become too good to bunt?

[marcshoe]

Originally Posted by jimbo

I'd agree if there was anyone besides a relief pitcher up next, that was the key behind the decision.

Relief pitchers would have had to have been coming up in the next two spots in order for that move to make sense. Of course, the way things were going tonight, that might have happened before long.

[jnwohio]

Originally Posted by EKURed

What's scariest is that he continues to take the Reds best and hottest hitter out of games that are not decided. It's a joke...

Agreed. Everytime he makes that switch, I call it the prevent defense and recall the old Bob Trumpyism "the only thing a prevent defense prevents is victory".

With this bullpen, you need to have a lead that is a lot bigger than surrmountable by a bloop and a blast before you deploy all your defensive specialists. It was particularly hurtfull tonoite because then in the next half inning he had to burn both Castro and Clayton for pinch hitters and had no bench even before extra innings had started.

[TOBTTReds]

Looking at the box score, you would think EdE got hurt.

[realistic]

No excuse for walking the winning run to 3rd base with 0 outs. I dont care if Randy Johnson were on deck, its just plain foolish.