Foster parents arrested for death of Marcus Fiesel

[flyer85]

This is a by-product of a me-first society. Lots of people out there who only see the world in terms of how it directly affects them.

[TeamBoone]

I had a "foster" child once, for three years... a teenage boy. It wasn't really a foster situation but it was a legal one (and I didn't know his parents). We had our ups and downs, but I like to think I had something to do with helping him turn his life around and become a responsible adult.

I still see him on occasion.

[Cedric]

I interviewed this family while I was interning last year for Big Brothers Big Sisters.

I didn't realize this was the family until I read in the Enquirer the name Donna Trevino. I had only been hearing of Marcus Fiesel and I did not remember that kid. I was there for the older brother and I honestly can't even remember if Marcus was in the house then. I think he had already been moved.

In my whole year of interning that was by far the weirdest home visit I had. She spoke at length about the window issue and about how pharmacies were screwing her kids out of medicine, weird. She was beyond weird and inconsiderate to me the whole time I was at the house. I was a little shocked at how the kid spoke to me and that she did nothing but laugh. It was such an eery feeling being in that house.
I clearly remember going back to my internship and just being shocked at the whole situation. It's quite sad.

[Reds Freak]

Did anyone see the picture in the paper of the real mother's boyfriend? Apparently he had to be restrained in the courtroom after seeing the foster father so that he wouldn't go after him. Yeah, I'm sure the boyfriend has played a big role in the child's life and was very emotionally attached to him. Now all of a sudden they care. Give me a break. The only person to feel sorry is little Marcus, everyone else is to blame.

[Ravenlord]

why does this entire event make me think of Stone Sour's "Bother"?



Wish I was too dead to cry
My self-affliction fades
Stones to throw at my creator
Masochists to which I cater
You don't need to bother;
I don't need to be
I'll keep slipping farther
But once I hold on,
I won't let go 'til it bleeds

Wish I was too dead to care
If indeed I cared at all
Never had a voice to protest
So you fed me **** to digest
I wish I had a reason;
my flaws are open season
For this, I gave up trying
One good turn deserves my dying

You don't need to bother;
I don't need to be
I'll keep slipping farther
But once I hold on,
I won't let go 'til it bleeds

[Solo: Corey]

Wish I'd died instead of lived
A zombie hides my face
Shell forgotten
with its memories
Diaries left
with cryptic entries

And you don't need to bother;
I don't need to be
I'll keep slipping farther
But once I hold on,
I won't let go 'til it bleeds

You don't need to bother;
I don't need to be
I'll keep slipping farther
But once I hold on:
I'll never live down my deceit

[Dom Heffner]

John Adams was critical of Thomas Paine on similar grounds. Adams saw a tendency amongst the revolutionaries that is probably a prevailing human trait; it's, generally easier to tear down than it is to build up. It's easier to say all this stuff is broke than it is to fix it.

While I admire- no, adore- the comparison, I'm having a little trouble putting this on us.

I can't tell you the amount of people I've heard volunteer to execute these parents, but I've heard exactly one person say "I wish I would have adopted this kid."

I am against the death penalty, but having said that, this is nobody's fault except for the people who volunteered to take care of this boy, the birth mother for putting him in the system in the first place, and the system for not ensuring his safety.

I think it is possible to be outraged but no be interested in adopting children or raising foster kids.

In fact, I would say the system is better off without people who aren't in it strictly for the love of children.

What needs to happen is that the people who run child services should better screen their candidates. It sounds like there were some clues here that all wasn't well, and the system needs to improve its methods to assure morons like these don't get a chance to raise kids.

There will always be lousy parents. We need to get a process down that weeds them out.

If I missed your argument I apologize, but it seems like you're saying that we can't be calling for justice unless we want to be part of the solution.

That sounds inspiring, but there are too many fires to put out in the world for someone to be a part of every solution they want fixed. To me, it is the responsibility of those who have answered this particular calling. In this instance it is child services, or the county or whoever is in this line of work.

As well- just by being outraged we are part of the solution because it places pressure on our public officials to correct flaws within the way they run things. When people start calling for heads, somebody usually gets the message.

Now the law gets to deal with these people, and even though I am personally against the death penalty, if they get it, you won't find me outside the state pen holding a candle. In fact, I'd argue that if it is the law, they should get it.

Hopefully I'm not missing the boat, but I read your post and felt that I couldn't be calling for justice if I wasn't interested in adopting a child.

Feel free to steer me straight.

I'd also add that I am not calling for the torture, rape, or anything beyond what the law deems as punishment for the accused. I don't feel the need to add debauchery on top of debauchery. The law needs to be followed in the strictest sense and nothing more or less should be acceptable.

[Cooper]

There's a saver shortage of FP's.

Vactican plum nailed the arguement.

18 dollars a day just doesn't sut it ---these kids have sever emotional problems --

25 years ago they were in institutions...so they are harder to handle.

!st time you came home to fecal material on the wall would probalby end it for most folks.

Socety doesn'T value the recruitment and retention of Fp's.....anyone want their taxes raised to pay for it? Dint think so?

Anyone want to take a placement where the child acts out sexually?

That's why it's hard to find homes.

Society doesn't value fostering. If they did --we wouldn't have these huge shortages.

Btw, 90% of the time it costs more to house the foster child then what the FP makes. When they do have extra they often turn into around and put it back into services for the child.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by Cooper

There's a saver shortage of FP's.

Vactican plum nailed the arguement.

18 dollars a day just doesn't sut it ---these kids have sever emotional problems --

25 years ago they were in institutions...so they are harder to handle.

!st time you came home to fecal material on the wall would probalby end it for most folks.

Socety doesn'T value the recruitment and retention of Fp's.....anyone want their taxes raised to pay for it? Dint think so?

Anyone want to take a placement where the child acts out sexually?

That's why it's hard to find homes.

Society doesn't value fostering. If they did --we wouldn't have these huge shortages.

Btw, 90% of the time it costs more to house the foster child then what the FP makes. When they do have extra they often turn into around and put it back into services for the child.

Exactly. As I stated before - my sister was heavily involved in the foster child program for close to 20 years, and helped to raise 10-15 children at various times. And everyone of them had problems.... emotional, physical, and psychological. Sadly enough, they all had "baggage", and it wasn't their fault IMHO. They came from scarred and broken homes inwhich alot of cases their parents had their own problems, couldn't raise them, or didn't want them.

And what I thought was the biggest problem or concern, when trying to deal with these troubled kids was that the government (social services) really strapped the hands of the foster parents when it came to disciplining these kids and trying to rein them in when they got out of control. And some of these kids needed it. But these kids also knew the "system", and they'd use it against their foster parents at times. All they had to do was level a charge against their foster parents to their social worker, regardless if it was true or not, and the SW would act on the premise that it was true until proven otherwise. And that meant alot of crap for those foster parents who had to prove their innocence and basically be "put through the wringer" to do so.

[TeamBoone]

Not all foster children are special needs children. If that not what you want, you do have options. Some are just unfortunate little people who need a stable home environment... loving but needy.

Again, if a special needs child is more than one can handle, there are plenty of other needy children who cry out silently for loving foster parents.

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

While I admire- no, adore- the comparison, I'm having a little trouble putting this on us.



I am against the death penalty, but having said that, this is nobody's fault except for the people who volunteered to take care of this boy, the birth mother for putting him in the system in the first place, and the system for not ensuring his safety.

I think it is possible to be outraged but no be interested in adopting children or raising foster kids.

In fact, I would say the system is better off without people who aren't in it strictly for the love of children.

What needs to happen is that the people who run child services should better screen their candidates. It sounds like there were some clues here that all wasn't well, and the system needs to improve its methods to assure morons like these don't get a chance to raise kids.

There will always be lousy parents. We need to get a process down that weeds them out.

If I missed your argument I apologize, but it seems like you're saying that we can't be calling for justice unless we want to be part of the solution.

That sounds inspiring, but there are too many fires to put out in the world for someone to be a part of every solution they want fixed. To me, it is the responsibility of those who have answered this particular calling. In this instance it is child services, or the county or whoever is in this line of work.

As well- just by being outraged we are part of the solution because it places pressure on our public officials to correct flaws within the way they run things. When people start calling for heads, somebody usually gets the message.

Now the law gets to deal with these people, and even though I am personally against the death penalty, if they get it, you won't find me outside the state pen holding a candle. In fact, I'd argue that if it is the law, they should get it.

Hopefully I'm not missing the boat, but I read your post and felt that I couldn't be calling for justice if I wasn't interested in adopting a child.

Feel free to steer me straight.

I'd also add that I am not calling for the torture, rape, or anything beyond what the law deems as punishment for the accused. I don't feel the need to add debauchery on top of debauchery. The law needs to be followed in the strictest sense and nothing more or less should be acceptable.

Dom, I'm not sure if you're talking to me or to the respondant, but just to clarify, I do not at all believe that you have no right to be angry about this if you are not willing to take children into your home or whatnot. I specifically said that everyone should be outraged about this, and you will most definitely not find me taking children into my home, because I am, as I said many people are, not in a position to do it. And what you say here is certainly true:

As well- just by being outraged we are part of the solution because it places pressure on our public officials to correct flaws within the way they run things. When people start calling for heads, somebody usually gets the message.

But it does really strike me that people seem more willing to get angry about this than to try to prevent it happening in the first place. The people who are responsible for Marcus's death are the following people: his killers, his parents, and the foster system (the members of whom I do not believe did a thorough job looking into these people when there certainly seemed to be clues regarding their inability to care for themselves/children). That's it, nobody else is responsible. But in a grayer world, the foster system has trouble placing kids because most people only want a certain kind of kid, and that puts them in a precarious position. People will mourn the death of a troublesome, special needs child, but they won't take him in in the first place. Again, that sounds horribly cynical, and again, I'm not trying to throw stones; I'm not the one taking in these kids. But while these people are not responsible for this death, they are part of a bigger picture of a society more willing to mourn -- or even to fix -- things after they're broken than to take care of them well enough to prevent them breaking in the first place.

This whole thing is a BIG story, and any big stories in America have an air of sensationalism about them. I can be very cynical and critical about things, so even when I know that the emotions that are stirred up by these kinds of stories are real and that people genuinely mourn such a poor little life as this one, sometimes I wonder if what they're responding to is the sadness of the story or the sensationalism. That is my own problem, and I am not trying to blame anyone for that. If there is a real change in the foster system and the amount of people trying to help such children, then I will take heart that people were genuinely moved (or angry) enough to respond. I do hope that's the case and so far I have seen signs that it could be. If nothing really changes until the next story like this comes along, then we have the same public outcry all over again, I will fear that the response was to the sensationalism.

PS I love the idea of a multi-quote function but I couldn't get it to work.

[BUTLER REDSFAN]

and now the waste of human flesh birth mother is suing the Butler County department that took the child to begin with??????????someone on wlw this saturday for what its worth said he was behind the birth mother in line at the social security office a few days ago and heard her tell an official she was 3 months pregnant again??

[zombielady]

I was sickened by the whole situation. And now the birthmother is suing? I doubt that she'll win, I mean, how can she?

[Ltlabner]

BATAVIA -- A jury has decided that Liz Carroll is guilty of murdering foster child Marcus Fiesel.

The jury reached their decision after a little over five hours of deliberations on Wednesday.

Carroll was also found guilty of kidnapping, felonious assault and three counts of child endangerment.


After the murder verdict was stated, Carroll began to cry and dropped her head through the rest of the verdicts.

She faces 15 years to life in prison. Defense attorney Gregory Cohen said he would appeal the verdict.

Sentencing will take place on Thursday.

News 5's John London said that Carroll's mother, Audrey Sims, left the courthouse crying "Amy did it! Don't nobody care that Amy did it?", referring to Amy Baker, a live-in girlfriend and star witness for the prosecution.

Stay tuned to News 5 and WLWT.com for the latest information.

Story here.

The case went to the jury today and the convicted right out of the gate. 1 down. 2 to go. Unfortunatley, they had to deal with Amy Baker so only 1 more will face justice at the hands of the legal system.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

Story here.

The case went to the jury today and the convicted right out of the gate. 1 down. 2 to go. Unfortunatley, they had to deal with Amy Baker so only 1 more will face justice at the hands of the legal system.

From what I've read about Baker, I can't believe they gave her a deal. She helped David dump the body, but she didn't have anything to do with the death, right.

[George Foster]

Originally Posted by TeamBoone

Where there's money to be had, the scum will rise to the top of the barrel... just like cream, only there's a huge difference.

Between his birth "mother" and his foster "mother", that poor little boy didn't have a chance in hell... oh wait, he was in hell.

Not anymore....he's in a lot better place.