Junior's Importance

[Razor Shines]

I know that the W/L record is better with Jr. out of the lineup, but that's not what this post is about. I was wondering how much Jr. helps the other guys in the order. Specifically the guys hitting directly in front or behind him in the order. The two guys that have had the bulk of the ABs in those two positions are Adam Dunn and Rich Aurilia. Aurilia has only hit with Jr. directly in front of him in the order and his numbers are pretty similar with or without Jr. in front of him. So I chose to focus on Adam Dunn who has hit with Jr. in front and behind him. And there is a fairly dramatic change in his numbers.

Here are Adam Dunn's stats with Jr. not directly in front or behind him. Note: these are not just with Jr. out of the lineup, these stats are also with Jr. in the lineup but not directly in F/B Dunn.

In 305 ABs his line is .213/.338/.500 a decent OPS of .838 but not from your markee power hitter. A really telling stat is that his walks per AB is 4.3. Obviously meaning he's not getting as much to swing at, which is fine as long as he' patient.

Hitting directly in front or behind Jr. his number are:
In 201 ABs his line is .289/.391/.552 a much more All Star like OPS of .943. His walks per AB jumps up to 6.9. So he's getting much better pitches to hit and taking advantage of them.

I broke it down a little more and looked at his stats just hitting directly in front of Jr.
In 116 ABs his line is .336/.416/.578 a red hot OPS of .994. His walk rate takes another small jump to 1 BB every 7.7 ABs. With that OPS I'd say he's seeing some pitches he likes.

It seems to me that Ken Griffey Jr. in the lineup is still a factor, at least in terms of Adam Dunn getting good pitches to hit. I don't know how much value this means he has to the Reds, but I thought I'd put some numbers out there. And I suppose there is the possibility that it's just a coincidence that Dunn hits better in those spots, but those are stats that also suggest maybe other teams still see Jr. as a dangerous hitter.

[mth123]

I agree. The one you forgot to mention is Hatte. He has spent a lot of time hitting at #2 with Griffey at #3. Hatte has had his best season. Coincidence?

Every line-up has main guys and role players. Some role players end up being superstars but they make their living by not being the guy that pitchers pitch around. Bobby Bonilla when he was on the Pirates is a good example. Everyone thought he was a major force in that line-up in the early 90s. But when separated from Bonds, Bonilla regressed and Bonds (the lean, clean one) still thrived. In the Cincinnati Line-up, Jr still appears to be that guy.

[Dracodave]

Griffey Offers protection for alot of our hitters.

However, I would feel safer in this line up with a righty power-hitter between Dunn and Griffey.

Or even a line up like this..

Freel
Dunn
Edwin
Griffey
RightyPower Hitter.

Give Griffey some support as well as Dunn and Edwin. Well round the line up, and not give them a certain weakness to attack.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by mth123

I agree. The one you forgot to mention is Hatte. He has spent a lot of time hitting at #2 with Griffey at #3. Hatte has had his best season. Coincidence?

Every line-up has main guys and role players. Some role players end up being superstars but they make their living by not being the guy that pitchers pitch around. Bobby Bonilla when he was on the Pirates is a good example. Everyone thought he was a major force in that line-up in the early 90s. But when separated from Bonds, Bonilla regressed and Bonds (the lean, clean one) still thrived. In the Cincinnati Line-up, Jr still appears to be that guy.

Actually Hatte has only had 85 ABs with Jr. directly behind him, seems like more though.