Wicked Stuff

[Ltlabner]

We're always talking about a pitchers "stuff" and how decpetive or wild it is.

I'll leave the debate open as to how to define "stuff" (ie. is it just movement or movement + control).

But what pitcher(s) in the history of baseball exibited some of the nastiest "stuff" out there? Any details beyond just a name would be appreicated.

[George Anderson]

The first two that come to mind would be Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson. I have seen videos of them making hitters look absolutely clueless.

[redsupport]

Bobby Locke and Bill Short immediately come to mind

[Blimpie]

Most obscure category: Gregg Olson -- Baltimore Orioles

In his prime, his breaking stuff danced unpredictably. I remember he had a "12 to 6 curve" that literally looked like it dropped off the table. Nearest to an unhittable curveball that I have ever seen.

Several years ago, I watched a series in which he pitched all three games as a reliever. I can't remember who the opposing manager was (Johnny Oates?), but this skipper had the umps check the balls (for doctoring) every time when Olson pitched that series.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by Blimpie

Most obscure category: Gregg Olson -- Baltimore Orioles

In his prime, he breaking stuff danced unpredictably. I remember he had a "12 to 6 curve" literally looked like it dropped off the table. Nearest to an unhittable curveball that I have ever seen.

Several years ago, I watched a series in which he pitched all three games as a reliever. I can't remember who the opposing manager was (Johnny Oates?), but this skipper had the umps check the balls every time when Olson pitched that series.

Olsen had a good hook. Ever see Bert Blyleven?

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by redsupport

Bobby Locke and Bill Short immediately come to mind

Speaking of "Short's," Chris Short was pretty nasty.

[flyer85]

Pedro.

There was a time when he was widely considered to have the best fastball, best changeup and best curveball in all of baseball.

I don't think any other pitcher has ever come close to having a trifecta like that. A lot of dominating pitchers have gotten on with only two nast pitches (Koufax, Big Unit, Ryan(until Scott taught him the scuffball)).

[dman]

Bruce Sutter
Roger Clemens (Gulp)

[texasdave]

eric gagne for a short period of time was almost unhittable

[RichRed]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC

Olsen had a good hook. Ever see Bert Blyleven?

"It (his curveball) was nasty, I'll tell you that. Enough to make your knees buckle. Bert (Blyleven) was a terrific pitcher — a dominating pitcher." - Hall of Famer Brooks Robinson

If you don't believe Brooks, you could ask Bert himself:

One curve I'll always remember was when I was pitching for Pittsburgh. Terry Kennedy was a young player with St. Louis. I threw him an 0-2 curve and it snapped. Terry's reaction was to swing straight down, like he was chopping the plate with an axe. It was the last out of the inning. After I ran off the mound, I looked over at the St. Louis' dugout. There were players rolling around on the floor, laughing. Poor Terry. I'll have to admit that was a hell of a curveball.

[redsupport]

I cant believe someone mentioned Greg Olsen,he is my sons pitching coach here in Newport Beach, California, a very nice guy but refuses to teach him the curve until he turns 14

[dfs]

As a 20 and 21 year old Rosario Rodriguez pitched 15 innings for the reds in the tail of the 89 and 90 seasons. I must have seen a third of those innings. Every time he pitched the ball broke a ton.

The ball broke so much, he couldn't control it and had a walk rate of a walk every two innings. You can't sustain that, but I thought once he got an ounce or two of control he was going to be unhittable.

Of course, it didn't work out that way. Pittsburgh got him off waivers and he was done after the 91 season. In 94 He went to the mexican league at 25, but even there he never threw more than 40 innings in a season. I've no idea what happened to him, but I still remember that breaking ball.

[dabvu2498]

I hate to say it... Kerry Wood... maybe the best of his generation... and it's all but gone now.

[MississippiRed]

When you say this, I first think of pitchers with pitches that are hard to hit, but then complemented by a completely different, equally unhittable pitch. In my book, that means Doc Gooden, who had a great fastball with movement complemented with a just-as-great, 12-6 curveball, which he called Lord Charles. Someone already mentioned Kerry Wood, who I place in the same category.

Best pitches? maybe Steve Carlton's slider.

In "Ball Four," Jim Bouton asked Sal Maglie what he used to shut out the Dodgers in some game before my time. Maglie replied, "97 snappers." So I guess he had a pretty good breaking ball.

Another category might be pitchers who, when they have their best stuff, don't necessarily strike guys out, but instead make them pound the ball into the ground, a la Brandon Webb. I think his stuff is pretty good.

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa

Pedro.

There was a time when he was widely considered to have the best fastball, best changeup and best curveball in all of baseball.

I don't think any other pitcher has ever come close to having a trifecta like that. A lot of dominating pitchers have gotten on with only two nast pitches (Koufax, Big Unit, Ryan(until Scott taught him the scuffball)).

I say Pedro too.

I'm only going by stuff I've seen, not stuff I've read about. But in my lifetime, Pedro definitely; when he was at his best he was like nothing else I've ever seen. He's one player I don't think I could ever stop respecting solely on the basis of his talent and pitching smarts.