Dick Wagner dead at 78 - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

fsp382 · 10-06-2006, 10:40 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2615893

TStuck · 10-06-2006, 11:41 PM

Sorry to see this. While Wagner has long been reviled as the destructor of the Big Red Machine which culminated in the inept team of 1982, he is not often given due credit for his work under Bob Howsam in helping to build the BRM in the first place.

My sore point with Wagner wasn't so much with his player moves as GM (and there were some godawful ones:thumbdown )... it was his firing of Sparky Anderson that made me swear to hate the guy.

If memory serves me, the Reds were coming off of a 2nd place finish that year ('78 not '79 as the report said) and Wagner was insisting that Sparky get rid of one or more of his coaches (I'm thinking Larry Shepard the pitching coach may have been the primary target) and when Sparky refused, Wagner dropped the axe on Sparky. I remember being dumbfounded when it was announced.

tomred · 10-06-2006, 11:54 PM

I hope he rests in peace I think he took a lot of the blame but did not deserve it

Always Red · 10-07-2006, 09:39 AM

Wagner is often incorrectly labelled as the man who "dismantled the BRM."

Free Agency, and the changing business of the game, dismantled the BRM.

Wagner does deserve blame for firing Anderson, as mentioned by TStuck, and deserves kudos for his work with Howsam to build the same team.

RIP, Dick Wagner.

RANDY IN INDY · 10-07-2006, 10:06 AM

Sorry to hear of his passing. Prayers to his family for peace.

With that said, he still made some pretty awful moves with the greatest team in baseball history.

goreds2 · 10-07-2006, 11:05 AM

Rip

RedsBaron · 10-07-2006, 03:43 PM

R.I.P., and I wish his family well.
That said, he was a terrible GM. The firing of Sparky was unjustified. I still remember that Dave Bristol called Wagner 'Blade" long before Tom Hall acquired that nickname. Brsitol said he did so because Wagner had a knife to stick in your back.

Krusty · 10-07-2006, 03:54 PM

His legacy will be known as the GM who fired Sparky Anderson.

Matt700wlw · 10-07-2006, 03:56 PM

Is it safe to say Tom Seaver was his best move?

RedFanAlways1966 · 10-07-2006, 09:48 PM

Sad news. I feel for his family.

Reminds me (long story)... back when I was younger (1977-79?) I earned "straight-A" tickets from the REDS. They had a program with schools that gave you free tickets for a certain GPA. The whole family (Mom, Dad, sister and me) went to the game. It rained hard before the start and until about 10:00 pm... major delay. It was a weekday game and a school night for me (13 yrs. old) and my sister (8 yrs old).

They used to start at 7:35 back then and once the delay lasted until 10:00 pm (not a single pitch yet) my Dad said let's go. We walked to the car in the Riverfront parking garage and drove to I-75. About 5 minutes north of the stadium Marty says on the radio, "And believe it or not they are going to start this game in about 15 minutes. There are still plenty of tickets available so come on down and see some baseball!" My Dad was livid and realized that there would be no rainout vouchers for our ticket stubs. I remember thinking that I had better not say anything during the car ride b/c Dad was not a happy camper. He was rambling on about how wrong it is for kids to get tickets for good grades and then be expected to stay up until after midnight on a school night to see that game.

The next day my Dad wrote a letter about starting so late and expecting working people and kids to pay for a game that doesn't start until after 10:00 pm on a weekday. He sent it to the REDS office and also sent a modified version to the Cincinnati Enquirer. The Enquirer printed the letter in their Op-Ed "Letters to the Editor" section. A few day later someone in the REDS offices called my Dad. Asked if they could get his address and make it up to him. He gave the address.

A week or so later he got a letter... it was from Dick Wagner. It was fairly lengthly, very friendly and professional. Wagner apologized and explained the rules that are in MLB regarding who is responsible for making the rainout decision (deflect blame, I guess?!?). He included 4 tickets to a game against the Astros that was about 2 weeks later. The seats were about 20 rows behind home plate and were far better than the ones for the rain delay game. He also threw in food vouchers and a parking pass. I remember that Foster hit a GS in the game to put the REDS ahead for good as the REDS had a big comeback to win that game. My Dad thought it was great and I guess he felt that he had proved his point (like most Dads can be!)... also got a letter from the REDS bossman (he was/is a huge fan too and that has special meaning!). It also gave Dad a soft spot for Wagner despite Dad's dislike of the BRM dismantling that Wagner presided over at the time.

LINEDRIVER · 10-07-2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt700wlw

Is it safe to say Tom Seaver was his best move?

If you are meaning Tom Seaver coming to Cincinnati, Bob Howsam pulled the trigger on that deal. Actually, Howsam cleaned house on that day.

Seaver was very unhappy with the Mets (owner/team prez/GM ????) M. Donald Grant and there was a rumor making its way around the newspapers that Seaver could be traded by the Mets to the Dodgers. I've always wondered if Howsam was afraid of the NL West rival Dodgers acquiring Seaver and so he quickly pulled the trigger on that deal.

Wagner eventually sent Seaver back to the Mets.

Chip R · 10-08-2006, 10:36 PM

Dick Wagner: Bad GM; great marketing director.

10-06-2006, 10:40 PM	#1
fsp382 Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: OHIO Posts: 138	Dick Wagner dead at 78 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2615893 __________________ "And Jr has homered for the first time as a Red" Last edited by fsp382; 10-06-2006 at 10:42 PM.

10-06-2006, 11:41 PM	#2
TStuck Off the schneid Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seymour, IN Posts: 247	Re: Dick Wagner dead at 78 Sorry to see this. While Wagner has long been reviled as the destructor of the Big Red Machine which culminated in the inept team of 1982, he is not often given due credit for his work under Bob Howsam in helping to build the BRM in the first place. My sore point with Wagner wasn't so much with his player moves as GM (and there were some godawful ones:thumbdown )... it was his firing of Sparky Anderson that made me swear to hate the guy. If memory serves me, the Reds were coming off of a 2nd place finish that year ('78 not '79 as the report said) and Wagner was insisting that Sparky get rid of one or more of his coaches (I'm thinking Larry Shepard the pitching coach may have been the primary target) and when Sparky refused, Wagner dropped the axe on Sparky. I remember being dumbfounded when it was announced. __________________ Better to be silent and thought a fool, than speak and be proven one. Last edited by TStuck; 10-06-2006 at 11:44 PM.

10-06-2006, 11:54 PM	#3
tomred Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 107	Re: Dick Wagner dead at 78 I hope he rests in peace I think he took a lot of the blame but did not deserve it

10-07-2006, 09:39 AM	#4
Always Red nothing more than a fan Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,960	Re: Dick Wagner dead at 78 Wagner is often incorrectly labelled as the man who "dismantled the BRM." Free Agency, and the changing business of the game, dismantled the BRM. Wagner does deserve blame for firing Anderson, as mentioned by TStuck, and deserves kudos for his work with Howsam to build the same team. RIP, Dick Wagner.

10-07-2006, 10:06 AM	#5
RANDY IN INDY Matt's Dad Join Date: May 2000 Location: Brownsburg, Indiana Posts: 14,497	Re: Dick Wagner dead at 78 Sorry to hear of his passing. Prayers to his family for peace. With that said, he still made some pretty awful moves with the greatest team in baseball history. __________________ Talent is God Given: be humble. Fame is man given: be thankful. Conceit is self given: be careful. John Wooden

10-07-2006, 11:05 AM	#6
goreds2 Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: OH H - EYE OH Posts: 2,567	Re: Dick Wagner dead at 78 Rip

10-07-2006, 03:43 PM	#7
RedsBaron Big Red Machine Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Out Wayne Posts: 22,365	Re: Dick Wagner dead at 78 R.I.P., and I wish his family well. That said, he was a terrible GM. The firing of Sparky was unjustified. I still remember that Dave Bristol called Wagner 'Blade" long before Tom Hall acquired that nickname. Brsitol said he did so because Wagner had a knife to stick in your back. __________________ "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

10-07-2006, 03:54 PM	#8
Krusty Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Williamsport, PA Posts: 12,311	Re: Dick Wagner dead at 78 His legacy will be known as the GM who fired Sparky Anderson. __________________ If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

10-07-2006, 03:56 PM	#9
Matt700wlw Making sense of it all Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 26,129	Re: Dick Wagner dead at 78 Is it safe to say Tom Seaver was his best move? __________________ An excited shade of Red

10-07-2006, 09:48 PM	#10
RedFanAlways1966 For a Level Playing Field Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Oakwood, OH Posts: 11,240	Re: Dick Wagner dead at 78 Sad news. I feel for his family. Reminds me (long story)... back when I was younger (1977-79?) I earned "straight-A" tickets from the REDS. They had a program with schools that gave you free tickets for a certain GPA. The whole family (Mom, Dad, sister and me) went to the game. It rained hard before the start and until about 10:00 pm... major delay. It was a weekday game and a school night for me (13 yrs. old) and my sister (8 yrs old). They used to start at 7:35 back then and once the delay lasted until 10:00 pm (not a single pitch yet) my Dad said let's go. We walked to the car in the Riverfront parking garage and drove to I-75. About 5 minutes north of the stadium Marty says on the radio, "And believe it or not they are going to start this game in about 15 minutes. There are still plenty of tickets available so come on down and see some baseball!" My Dad was livid and realized that there would be no rainout vouchers for our ticket stubs. I remember thinking that I had better not say anything during the car ride b/c Dad was not a happy camper. He was rambling on about how wrong it is for kids to get tickets for good grades and then be expected to stay up until after midnight on a school night to see that game. The next day my Dad wrote a letter about starting so late and expecting working people and kids to pay for a game that doesn't start until after 10:00 pm on a weekday. He sent it to the REDS office and also sent a modified version to the Cincinnati Enquirer. The Enquirer printed the letter in their Op-Ed "Letters to the Editor" section. A few day later someone in the REDS offices called my Dad. Asked if they could get his address and make it up to him. He gave the address. A week or so later he got a letter... it was from Dick Wagner. It was fairly lengthly, very friendly and professional. Wagner apologized and explained the rules that are in MLB regarding who is responsible for making the rainout decision (deflect blame, I guess?!?). He included 4 tickets to a game against the Astros that was about 2 weeks later. The seats were about 20 rows behind home plate and were far better than the ones for the rain delay game. He also threw in food vouchers and a parking pass. I remember that Foster hit a GS in the game to put the REDS ahead for good as the REDS had a big comeback to win that game. My Dad thought it was great and I guess he felt that he had proved his point (like most Dads can be!)... also got a letter from the REDS bossman (he was/is a huge fan too and that has special meaning!). It also gave Dad a soft spot for Wagner despite Dad's dislike of the BRM dismantling that Wagner presided over at the time. __________________ Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

10-08-2006, 10:36 PM	#12
Chip R Rally Onion! Join Date: May 2000 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 33,211	Re: Dick Wagner dead at 78 Dick Wagner: Bad GM; great marketing director. __________________ The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

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