Dunn traded for what ( realistically )

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Krusty

You're the one with the man love for Adam Dunn.

That's it?

I love Adam Dunn?

Come on.. you can do better then that can't you?

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by pedro

Krusty, I'm looking forward to that data to back up your contention. You should have it on hand as you say you've already "looked at his numbers closely".

Sorry don't have the time. I watched enough games though to know that Dunn doesn't strike the same fear as Junior does late in games.

But if you look at these stats, tell me what outstanding months did Dunn have other than July? For a lefthanded hitter, he batted .215 against righthanded pitching.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...055&statType=1

23 out of his 40 home runs came with the bases empty. Only 13 home runs and 59 RBIs came with runners in scoring position.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...t=1&splitSet=2

Yeah, I'm looking at the stats and I'm not impressed with what I see.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by Krusty

Sorry don't have the time. I watched enough games though to know that Dunn doesn't strike the same fear as Junior does late in games.

But if you look at these stats, tell me what outstanding months did Dunn have other than July? For a lefthanded hitter, he batted .215 against righthanded pitching.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...055&statType=1

23 out of his 40 home runs came with the bases empty. Only 13 home runs and 59 RBIs came with runners in scoring position.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...t=1&splitSet=2

Yeah, I'm looking at the stats and I'm not impressed with what I see.

That does nothing to prove that the runs he produced were inconsequential.

We all know he had a down year, that's not the point.

Neverthess, I'm not surprised to hear that you're not willing to even take the time to truly find out if what you are saying is BS or not.

Go through the game logs and show us how those runs he produced were worthless. I dare you.

You probably won't though, you'll just make more cracks about man love. And boy let me tell you, that's really impressive.

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by Krusty

23 out of his 40 home runs came with the bases empty. Only 13 home runs and 59 RBIs came with runners in scoring position.

Wow I did not know that!

How many came when the game was out of reach and they really did not matter?
How many came against pitchers that were just terrible that day or for the season?

[BRM]

Originally Posted by Krusty

Only 13 home runs and 59 RBIs came with runners in scoring position.

Both of those numbers led the Reds by the way.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by pedro

That does nothing to prove that the runs he produced were inconsequential.

We all know he had a down year, that's not the point.

Neverthess, I'm not surprised to hear that you're not willing to even take the time to truly find out if what you are saying is BS or not.

Go through the game logs and show us how those runs he produced were worthless. I dare you.

You probably won't though, you'll just make more cracks about man love. And boy let me tell you, that's really impressive.

I don't know what else to say other than take off those rose color glasses you have toward Dunn. I showed you the stats for the season overall. He should have torn up righthanded pitching. 23 of those home runs were solo shots. Wow, I'm impressed. 59 RBIS with runners in scoring position? Guy doesn't remind me of the Big Dog Tony Perez. And I haven't even mentioned his defensive deficiencies. But ignore the stats I produced. With the exception of July, he struggled all year.

Dunn was the primary reason why Chambliss wasn't rehired. His game wasn't improving with the bat and Chambliss has been the hitting coach for three seasons. If anything, Dunn will probably be with the Reds come 2007 with the hope a new hitting coach can change his approach. But how committed Dunn is to upgrading his game remains a question.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by SpringfieldFan

Wow I did not know that!

How many came when the game was out of reach and they really did not matter?
How many came against pitchers that were just terrible that day or for the season?

I can't find the post now, but I went through all his game logs from 2004-2005 earlier this season to show how few of Dunn's HR's came when the game was already out of hand. It wasn't very many at all. Haven't done it for this season because I'm tire of banging my head against the wall to refute BS spouted by folks who aren't even willing to do a little research to back their contentions.

This really isn't to single Krusty out as he's not the only one who does this, but there is a common thread among Dunn bashers and it's that they generally like to say things but are very unwilling to do any work to find out if the things they say are true or not.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by BRM

Both of those numbers led the Reds by the way.

Which is sad. And if you look at the Reds won-lost record, it should have been worse than it was.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by Krusty

I don't know what else to say other than take off those rose color glasses you have toward Dunn. I showed you the stats for the season overall. He should have torn up righthanded pitching. 23 of those home runs were solo shots. Wow, I'm impressed. 59 RBIS with runners in scoring position? Guy doesn't remind me of the Big Dog Tony Perez. And I haven't even mentioned his defensive deficiencies. But ignore the stats I produced. With the exception of July, he struggled all year.

Dunn was the primary reason why Chambliss wasn't rehired. His game wasn't improving with the bat and Chambliss has been the hitting coach for three seasons. If anything, Dunn will probably be with the Reds come 2007 with the hope a new hitting coach can change his approach. But how committed Dunn is to upgrading his game remains a question.

I never said Dunn had a good year.

I'm not impressed with your analysis. You still haven't done a thing to prove your point. If you want to know what else to say, go through the game logs and prove to me that those runs Dunn produced were meaningless.

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by pedro

I can't find the post now, but I went through all his game logs from 2004-2005 earlier this season to show how few of Dunn's HR's came when the game was already out of hand. It wasn't very many at all.

Ok, thank you pedro, I really did not know. I should do more research vs observation it shows.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by pedro

I can't find the post now, but I went through all his game logs from 2004-2005 earlier this season to show how few of Dunn's HR's came when the game was already out of hand. It wasn't very many at all. Haven't done it for this season because I'm tire of banging my head against the wall to refute BS spouted by folks who aren't even willing to do a little research to back their contentions.

This really isn't to single Krusty out as he's not the only one who does this, but there is a common thread among Dunn bashers and it's that they generally like to say things but are very unwilling to do any work to find out if the things they say are true or not.

So I guess you just ignore the batting averages for the months too and that he batted .215 against righthanders. I guess it doesn't matter his stats declined after the allstar break.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...055&statType=1

But I can understand where you're coming from. I defend the Steelers Ben Rothlisberger like he is my son but to be honest.....his game pretty much has sucked so far this season. And I can honestly say the same thing about Dunn improving his game.
b

[jmac]

Originally Posted by pedro

We all know he had a down year

look....i dont get in alot of dunn talk because to me, he is not terrible but not great either. i would love to see him hit 50 hr 130 rbi.
however you said he had a "down year".
his last 3 years he has had:
46...102
40....101
40....92
hrs/rbi that is
bb 108/114/112

avg has went from 266/247/234
i guess my question is a down year or pretty normal year? #'s with exception of rbi's being down slightly havent varied much.
that is why i say i expect 40/100 from dunn. I hope for more but expect that.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by BRM

Both of those numbers led the Reds by the way.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by Krusty

So I guess you just ignore the batting averages for the months too and that he batted .215 against righthanders. I guess it doesn't matter his stats declined after the allstar break.

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...055&statType=1

But I can understand where you're coming from. I defend the Steelers Ben Rothlisberger like he is my son but to be honest.....his game pretty much has sucked so far this season. And I can honestly say the same thing about Dunn improving his game.
b

you can keep on talking, but you still haven't done anything to prove your contention that Dunn's HR's come at times when they didn't matter. The only thing that will do that is to go through the game logs and list what the score was when he hit his HR.

I know Dunn had a poor second half and that July was the only truly good month he had all year I never said he didn't. I also know that his OPS with RISP was .923 and that in those situations he drove in 59 runners in 139 AB's. (1 RBI every 2.40 AB's with RISP)

Rich Aurilia OTOH had an OPS of .836 with RISP with 48 RBI's in 118 AB's (1 RBI every 2.46 AB's with RISP)

23 or Dunn's 40 HR's were solo (57 %) . 13 of Aurilia's 23 HR's were solo (57 %).


Looks to me that Dunn performs just as well on the whole with RISP as Aurilia, who due to his fine second half of the season is viewed as "mr. clutch" by many.

I'll agree that Dunn's game is not pretty to watch. Neverthess, he does produce, despite his deficiencies.

TMBS, I'd certainly hope Dunn has a better 2007 than 2006 because if he doesn't that 13 million dollar option for 2008 might not be such a good deal.


edit: when I looked this stuff I also found out that EE had 55 RBI's with 109 ab's with RISP. He raked this year. Hope he keeps that hope.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by jmac

look....i dont get in alot of dunn talk because to me, he is not terrible but not great either. i would love to see him hit 50 hr 130 rbi.
however you said he had a "down year".
his last 3 years he has had:
46...102
40....101
40....92
hrs/rbi that is
bb 108/114/112

avg has went from 266/247/234
i guess my question is a down year or pretty normal year? #'s with exception of rbi's being down slightly havent varied much.
that is why i say i expect 40/100 from dunn. I hope for more but expect that.

RBI's are sooooo team dependant

In 2004 and 2005 the Resd also had this many players with over 67 rus scored (aside from Dunn) This year after Dunn the high guy was Freel wth 67.

It helps a bit if their more opportunities, this year despite Dunn's slumping thei were less opportunities across the board for the Reds.

RUNS                          YEAR      R      
3    Sean Casey               2004      101   
4    Felipe Lopez             2005       97   
5    Ken Griffey Jr.          2005       85   
6    D'Angelo Jimenez         2004       76   
7    Sean Casey               2005       75   
8    Ryan Freel               2004       74   
9    Ryan Freel               2005       69