BA rates Votto #1 at 1B, Homer #2 RHP and Bruce #3 corner OF

[M2]

BA's Chris Kline just put together positional rankings. Joey Votto came out on top of what he called "a rather uninspring list of first basemen." Still, it's major feather in Joey's cap seeing that he'd all but lost his prospect status a year ago.

Homer Bailey finished behind Phillip Hughes (Yankees). Delmon Young (D-Rays) and Billy Butler (Royals) beat out Jay Bruce. Seeing that Butler's a DH with a glove on his hand for show, I'm guessing Bruce will eclipse him once he proves he can hit in the upper minors, though that might not happen until 2008.

Here's the link, though you need a BA subscription to see it:

http://www.baseballamerica.com/onlin...es/262606.html

Other guys on the lists who interest me include Alberto Callaspo (#2 at 2B, but the D-Backs have the O-Dog at 2B), Erick Aybar (#4 at SS, sandwiched between two other Angels shortstops on the list and stuck behind Orlando Cabrera on the team depth chart) and Chris Young (#4 in CF, supposedly he'd be Reds property but for Carl Lindner shooting down the deal to get him).

[mth123]

I've been saying this for a while now, but the best chance for the Reds to be respectable in 2007 is for Votto to win the 1B job. IMO every decent line-up needs 4 guys who can slug .450. Votto would get us there (with Dunn, EE and Griffey. If Ross repeats it could be 5 but I want 4 not counting on Ross). I don't really see it coming from anywhere else. Getting that 4th guy makes it easier to carry a glove at SS and Deno in CF.

[M2]

I agree the Reds need a power upgrade at 1B, but I'm not particularly high on Votto's chances of making the leap next year. He likely needs a year in AAA even if he is the real thing.

[mth123]

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll even get the chance to find out. 1B is Hat's, possibly split with a journeyman RH hitter.

[TOBTTReds]

Originally Posted by mth123

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll even get the chance to find out. 1B is Hat's, possibly split with a journeyman RH hitter.

I'm usually very against this situation, but I don't have a big problem with JV (Votto that is) being down at AAA. He really struggled with his first big jump to high A from low. Make sure he can ease into AAA, then ease him in to our lineup in July with a Hatte trade, or leave him down til september if we are out of it. If we are in the race, I would like him up in July.

Have him ready for 08. That is a year we gain $14 mil in payroll by losing Milton and Larue. That is good.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

I'm usually very against this situation, but I don't have a big problem with JV (Votto that is) being down at AAA. He really struggled with his first big jump to high A from low. Make sure he can ease into AAA, then ease him in to our lineup in July with a Hatte trade, or leave him down til september if we are out of it. If we are in the race, I would like him up in July.

Have him ready for 08. That is a year we gain $14 mil in payroll by losing Milton and Larue. That is good.

You are probably right, but I don't fear challenging a good fundamental hitter like Votto. He's not a pitcher.

I too think 2008 is the time to really contend. I'm just observing that 2007 looks bleak w/o an upgrade to the offense. Not much help at the open spots (SS) and no need to commit long term to a FA at spots where help is on the way. Votto is the best chance to upgrade IMO.

[Superdude]

Votto definitely needs PT somehow. Hatteberg deserves the job starting out, but if he falters at all, or if Votto is raking at AAA, ditch Hatteberg for a prospect and bring on the future. Look at what EdE did last season and what he did this season. I'd hate for us to find ourselves 7 games back in May 2007 because Votto is still adjusting to ML pitchers.

[lollipopcurve]

I'd like to see Votto up by mid-07 so that he can be one of the lineup anchors in 08. I agree with mth123 -- he's fundamentally very sound, so I see little risk in getting him in there against major league pitchers this coming year.

[RedsManRick]

What's the scouting report on Votto. Why did he struggle in high A and then destroy AA this year. Is he making adjustments to his approach? Handling offspeed stuff better? Learning to hit lefties? Also, is his speed for real or is it just him taking advantage of good spots and pitchers with slow deliveries?

[lollipopcurve]

Why did he struggle in high A and then destroy AA this year.

The reports have been that the mandated take-a-strike approach instituted under O'Brien really screwed him up. If you look at his 2004, when he went from low A to a nice few weeks at high A, you shouldn't be all that surprised to see him excel 2 years later at AA. The base stealing is a new development -- haven't heard where that comes from, but I doubt the Reds will want him to pursue 20+ bags a year much longer, if at all.

[dougdirt]

Joey Votto gained some speed this year. Last offseason he hired a personal trainer to help him build muscle and gain speed for this season. It obviously helped him out.

[IslandRed]

Originally Posted by mth123

I've been saying this for a while now, but the best chance for the Reds to be respectable in 2007 is for Votto to win the 1B job.

Originally Posted by mth123

Unfortunately, I don't think we'll even get the chance to find out. 1B is Hat's, possibly split with a journeyman RH hitter.

It would be a good thing for the Reds if Votto can win the job and slug .450 out of the gate, but it would be a bad idea to make offseason plans around the assumption that he will. At the same time, the team doesn't want to commit much in money or time to a player who's subject to being moved out of the way at some point. Ergo, Scott Hatteberg on a one-year deal.

[RedsManRick]

Does anybody have lefty/right splits for Votto? Assuming he can hit major league pitching, generically speaking, does a platoon still make sense or would he be playing everyday?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Does anybody have lefty/right splits for Votto? Assuming he can hit major league pitching, generically speaking, does a platoon still make sense or would he be playing everyday?

0.262/0.357/0.399/0.756 vs Lefties....not so good
0.351/0.438/0.631/1.068 vs righties....VERY Good

[mth123]

Originally Posted by IslandRed

It would be a good thing for the Reds if Votto can win the job and slug .450 out of the gate, but it would be a bad idea to make offseason plans around the assumption that he will. At the same time, the team doesn't want to commit much in money or time to a player who's subject to being moved out of the way at some point. Ergo, Scott Hatteberg on a one-year deal.

Generally agree, but I think counting on Hat is a worse plan. He has a strong pattern of poor years in odd numbered years. He slumped in the second half and though his OBP could stay .350+, I expect the slugging to fall to below .400. Hat is cheap enough to have a bench role where I believe he would be an asset and could always take over if Votto needs more time in AAA. If Votto does well, he makes the line-up work as the 4th power threat. Hat doesn't provide that possibility.

The reds no longer have 3 power guys in the OF or power at SS. Carrying a non-power guy at 1B is more problematic with Deno/Freel in an OF spot and glove man of the day at SS.