Plan To Dump Junior

[Natty Redlocks]

First, this will never happen. I know this. But I was trying to imagine a scenario where another team would take Ken Griffey Jr. off our hands, and here's what I came up with:

Chicago Cubs get:

Dunn
KGJ
Freel

Reds get:

Felix Pie
Matt Murton
2 or 3 young pitchers (Aardsma, Guzman, Marshall, Marmol, Mateo, Ryu, etc)

Why on earth would the Reds do this?

Because they're not going anywhere as long as Ken Griffey Jr. and his contract are around. He's no longer a reliable offensive centerpiece. He apparently refuses to entertain the notion that he may not be the best defensive CF available. You include Dunn because there's no way the deal happens if you don't. Unloading them both--and replacing them both with cheap young players with fairly high ceilings--frees up about a third of the payroll and expedites the inevitable rebuilding process. Instead of improving marginally while you wait for two years to get rid of Junior, you rebuild in one fell swoop. You include Freel because he's way more valuable to the Cubs as a leadoff hitter and backup to Jr. than he is to the Reds. Quite frankly, even if it was for just Murton and Pie, you could make a case that those two make a lot more sense financially for the Reds than Dunn and Griffey.

And why would the Cubs do it?

It definitely would not be their first choice. Their first choice is to sign Soriano to lead off and play CF. Or trade for A-Rod or Tejada. To upgrade offensively up the middle to make up for their weak OF corners. If they fail to do this, they'll be desperate, and a trade like this one could have some appeal.

Why would Junior waive his 10/5 rights?

First, the trade itself would let him know the Reds don't want him in CF. The Cubs would have no place BUT CF to play him. Playing under Lou Piniella, his mgr during his glory years in Seattle, may appeal to him. Geography shouldn't be a problem either.

I know it's a ridiculous proposal. I'd be very interested in hearing any other scenarios where another team might be willing to take Junior. I like him fine but for the Reds he's too expensive for what he provides.

[RedLegSuperStar]

Chicago Cubs get:

Dunn
KGJ
Freel

Reds get:

Felix Pie
Matt Murton
2 or 3 young pitchers (Aardsma, Guzman, Marshall, Marmol, Mateo, Ryu, etc)

Yikes.. Give me Zambrano and Pie

[Joseph]

Whats the love affair with Murton?

[RedsManRick]

I think maybe we should throw Homer Bailey and Jay Bruce in. Definitely not giving up enough in this one...

[reds44]

lol

[terminator]

I thought it was Daylight Saving Time, not April Fools Day.

[pahster]

Whats the love affair with Murton?

He's got good minor league OBP numbers, but they're a bit too BA dependant for me to have more than a passing interest in him.

[Highlifeman21]

He's got good minor league OBP numbers, but they're a bit too BA dependant for me to have more than a passing interest in him.

So does Chris Denorfia, but he's not getting much playing time from us, and plays better defense. Try some of our own guys before we send a Bentley to the Cubs and get a Dodge Neon in return.

[pahster]

So does Chris Denorfia, but he's not getting much playing time from us, and plays better defense. Try some of our own guys before we send a Bentley to the Cubs and get a Dodge Neon in return.

Oh I agree. I want Denorfia in CF next year. I want to keep Dunn as well. I don't really understand everyone's willingness to trade the Reds' best offensive player.

[Highlifeman21]

Oh I agree. I want Denorfia in CF next year. I want to keep Dunn as well. I don't really understand everyone's willingness to trade the Reds' best offensive player.

You and me both.

He's been our best offensive player since 2002. He's a talent that came up from the minors, and I'd sure as hell like to see him in a Reds uni for his whole career. I understand we have a pitching weakness and trading Dunn should address that weakness, but most of these trade proposals are honestly just a trade Dunn for the sake of trade. I can understand that last year with Sean Casey. We needed to salary dump Sean Casey. Adam Dunn is not Sean Casey.

[Falls City Beer]

Murton strikes me as a less slovenly Austin Kearns. I'd like to pick him up, but I'm afraid the Cubs now know what they have in him.

[Natty Redlocks]

Am I really the only one who thinks the number one thing keeping the Reds from moving forward is Griffey?

This wasn't a "dump Dunn" thread. It was a "dump Dunn if it's the only way to dump Junior" thread.

I like Dunn, I really do. But I don't feel he has to be clung to at all costs. The idea of a cheap, promising offensive core is appealling, as long as the extra money is spent on bringing in and retaining good pitching.

Like I said, if anyone has any remotely realistic ideas on how to move out of the Junior era -- or reasons why it shouldn't be done as soon as possible -- I'm very interested in exploring them. But as a franchise player he's been pretty much a total bust since he arrived here and his contract --and attitude-- has severely limited the team's options. It looks to me like it's only going to get worse. I'd rather see them solve the problem and move forward rather than tiptoe around it for two more painful years.

[Falls City Beer]

Am I really the only one who thinks the number one thing keeping the Reds from moving forward is Griffey?

This wasn't a "dump Dunn" thread. It was a "dump Dunn if it's the only way to dump Junior" thread.

I like Dunn, I really do. But I don't feel he has to be clung to at all costs. The idea of a cheap, promising offensive core is appealling, as long as the extra money is spent on bringing in and retaining good pitching.

Like I said, if anyone has any remotely realistic ideas on how to move out of the Junior era -- or reasons why it shouldn't be done as soon as possible -- I'm very interested in exploring them. But as a franchise player he's been pretty much a total bust since he arrived here and his contract --and attitude-- has severely limited the team's options. It looks to me like it's only going to get worse. I'd rather see them solve the problem and move forward rather than tiptoe around it for two more painful years.

You make some excellent points. But Junior can nix any trade.

[Natty Redlocks]

Junior can nix any trade.

That's true, of course. But that doesn't mean he definitely would refuse every trade. Especially if he knew the Reds weren't willing to put him in CF any more, and the team he'd be going to was.

[Falls City Beer]

That's true, of course. But that doesn't mean he definitely would refuse every trade. Especially if he knew the Reds weren't willing to put him in CF any more, and the team he'd be going to was.

It's not the worst idea to make Junior's life miserable so he'll accept a trade. But those are the tactics the team would have to resort to to dump him.