Angels shortstops - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Will M · 10-29-2006, 03:55 PM

The Reds need either a SS or a 2B ( if Phillips plays SS ).

Lugo is the only decent free agent shortstop and I think he will be overpaid ( aren't most halfway decent free agents overpaid? ).

The Angels have O Cabrera ( solid , expensive contract ) , Aybar ( prospect ) and Wood ( prospect ). Obviously they can't play all three. Has anyone heard what the Angels would like to do? Any chance the Reds could get one of these shortstops in a trade?

I know the Angels want a power bat. Obviously people have mentioned Dunn in a trade but I think the Angels will go after Carlos Lee or Soriano with a trade being a fallback plan. The Angels needs seem to be: 1B, 3B?, CF ( they aren't happy with Chone Figgins ), C?, & a lefty reliever.

mth123 · 10-29-2006, 04:01 PM

You forgot Macier Izturis (.777 OPS in about 350 AB) and he's a guy that could be had for a reasonable price IMO. That LH relief looks like something the Reds could spare. If I had my choice I'd send Cormier for Izturis. But I'd let them pick any two of Cormier, Shack, Coutlangus and Pelland. I might even go Bray but probably not from Wayne's standpoint (he has another trade to justify).

Team Clark · 10-29-2006, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mth123

You forgot Macier Izturis (.777 OPS in about 350 AB) and he's a guy that could be had for a reasonable price IMO. That LH relief looks like something the Reds could spare. If I had my choice I'd send Cormier for Izturis. But I'd let them pick any two of Cormier, Shack, Coutlangus and Pelland. I might even go Bray but probably not from Wayne's standpoint (he has another trade to justify).

Pretty good proposal IMO. Cormier and Coutlangus could land a Macier Izturis.

dougdirt · 10-29-2006, 04:10 PM

I doubt that Brandon Wood is going anywhere. I think another SS of theirs though could be picked up, just depends what you want to offer.

Will M · 10-29-2006, 04:14 PM

I did forget about Izturis.
If Izturis could be thought of as an everyday major league SS then I certainly would do Cormier for him. Cormier for 1 year at $2M+ vs a 2nd year SS.
Seems like a good trade for the Reds ( who I still think should be looking at 2008 with anything we do in 2007 being a nice bonus).
I'd prefer we find a young SS who we could 'pencil into the lineup' for a few years rather than a stop gap ( since I believe we don't have a SS prospect in the high minors ).

Bray, Majik & Coffey are the three relievers I would keep ( all young and cheap). I still hope either Coffey or Bray can step up and be a closer.

dougdirt · 10-29-2006, 04:21 PM

Will, the best bet at SS in the high minors is Paul Janish who is going to be in AA next season to start, and is probably at least a year away if he continues to progress with the bat.

Will M · 10-29-2006, 04:26 PM

if that is the case then a stop gap SS would be OK.
If Janish starts next year at AA then we won't likely see him until mid 2008 even if he progresses as planned ( based on what Krisky has said about prospects having to prove themselves at each level )

- Will

mth123 · 10-29-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will M

I did forget about Izturis.
If Izturis could be thought of as an everyday major league SS then I certainly would do Cormier for him. Cormier for 1 year at $2M+ vs a 2nd year SS.
Seems like a good trade for the Reds ( who I still think should be looking at 2008 with anything we do in 2007 being a nice bonus).
I'd prefer we find a young SS who we could 'pencil into the lineup' for a few years rather than a stop gap ( since I believe we don't have a SS prospect in the high minors ).

Bray, Majik & Coffey are the three relievers I would keep ( all young and cheap). I still hope either Coffey or Bray can step up and be a closer.

Izturis will 26 on opening day and has had 1 more successful semi-regular major league season than either Aybar or Wood. I get him cheap and see what happens. If he crashes, you still bought Janisch some time, can look elsewhere and have all your major chips intact. Can't be worse than Clayton and Castro and some one (not on Redszone) thought that was a good idea.

Mario-Rijo · 10-29-2006, 05:00 PM

My thinking says that Griffey (It's a huge reach I know) could still be dealt to a place like Anaheim or Detroit. They both need a LH bat with power, he could DH for either of them and at 10.1 million isn't the worst possible option for either team especially if you anty up say 3-4 mill. Anaheim is desperate for OF's, also he isn't any worse than playing Erstad, Rivera or Garret Anderson out in CF at this point. Of course I could see Edmonds going back there for a reduced price tag. Either way I think something could be worked out.

My point to all this is you may be able to pry Orlando Cabrera away for Griffey. Not sure what the difference in salary is but (Cabrera 7.5 Mill in '06) it's possible we could come to some sort of agreement there due to the depth that the Angels have at the position. I believe Griffey would waive his no trade clause to go to one or either of these places, because he knows deep down he has little or no chance to make it to the WS here next year and he's likely done after '07 (IMHO), just look at the decline. And if he DH's a great deal next year his chances improve to get to 600 HR's.

I understand Griffey will be extremely difficult to unload and the likelihood of this happening is little to none. But I think it's time for him to go and most everyone including him knows it. It's either that or change positions, perhaps to LF (This is assuming Dunn happens to be dealt) or RF and dropped to about 5th at best in the lineup. So with these thoughts in mind he may be willing to go elsewhere. We may not get alot in return but if we can unload most of his dollars to use elsewhere and free up CF to someone who is more capable of playing it defensively then I think we need to do it. And more importantly I think the organization knows it.

mth123 · 10-29-2006, 05:06 PM

I think Anaheim is too far from Griffey's family just like Seattle was. I don't see him going there.

Mario-Rijo · 10-29-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

I think Anaheim is too far from Griffey's family just like Seattle was. I don't see him going there.

I understand that however there was some whispers not too awful long ago that he would consider going back to Seattle. But my line of thinking isn't to necc. deal him to Anaheim, just trying to figure where he fits and then go from there. Detroit is a strong possibility though.

mth123 · 10-29-2006, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

I understand that however there was some whispers not too awful long ago that he would consider going back to Seattle. But my line of thinking isn't to necc. deal him to Anaheim, just trying to figure where he fits and then go from there. Detroit is a strong possibility though.

Yeah, I admit that I thought the Seattle thing might be possible too. Ending his career where he had his glory is different. FWIW I don't think he'll go anywhere except Atlanta and I have a lot of doubts about that too.

M2 · 10-30-2006, 01:05 AM

The Angels have also got a SS prospect named Sean Rodriguez in line right behind Wood.

Aybar's the odd man out. Veteran with a big contract in front of him, mega prospect right behind him. Somebody's going to get him in trade one of these days. I only hope it will be the Reds.

As for Janish, he's either going to get on the Denorfia plan this year (e.g. have a breakthrough) or he's never going to be a prospect. Nice if it happens, but the Reds can't afford to bank on it. If the organization is making "we'll have Paul Janish by 200X" plans, then the franchise is just about irretreivably lost.

HBP · 10-30-2006, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2

As for Janish, he's either going to get on the Denorfia plan this year (e.g. have a breakthrough) or he's never going to be a prospect. Nice if it happens, but the Reds can't afford to bank on it. If the organization is making "we'll have Paul Janish by 200X" plans, then the franchise is just about irretreivably lost.

Agree on that. I doubt Wayne is looking at him to be the SS of the future. I'd say if there's a SS/2B of the future in the system, it's probably Valaika.

mth123 · 10-30-2006, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M2

The Angels have also got a SS prospect named Sean Rodriguez in line right behind Wood.

Aybar's the odd man out. Veteran with a big contract in front of him, mega prospect right behind him. Somebody's going to get him in trade one of these days. I only hope it will be the Reds.

As for Janish, he's either going to get on the Denorfia plan this year (e.g. have a breakthrough) or he's never going to be a prospect. Nice if it happens, but the Reds can't afford to bank on it. If the organization is making "we'll have Paul Janish by 200X" plans, then the franchise is just about irretreivably lost.

Agree Aybar will eventually go, I just don't think its until mid-season or next off-season. He projects as a good SS but not a real difference maker IMO. I would not wreck our team just to fill a hole with him. If you can get him for spare parts then sure. Though Aybar could end-up at SS and Wood at 3B with Cabrera dumped at some point.

Also not high on Janisch.

10-29-2006, 03:55 PM	#1
Will M Brett William Moore Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Crescent Springs KY Posts: 3,511	Angels shortstops The Reds need either a SS or a 2B ( if Phillips plays SS ). Lugo is the only decent free agent shortstop and I think he will be overpaid ( aren't most halfway decent free agents overpaid? ). The Angels have O Cabrera ( solid , expensive contract ) , Aybar ( prospect ) and Wood ( prospect ). Obviously they can't play all three. Has anyone heard what the Angels would like to do? Any chance the Reds could get one of these shortstops in a trade? I know the Angels want a power bat. Obviously people have mentioned Dunn in a trade but I think the Angels will go after Carlos Lee or Soriano with a trade being a fallback plan. The Angels needs seem to be: 1B, 3B?, CF ( they aren't happy with Chone Figgins ), C?, & a lefty reliever.

10-29-2006, 04:01 PM	#2
mth123 The Big Dog Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 12,659	Re: Angels shortstops You forgot Macier Izturis (.777 OPS in about 350 AB) and he's a guy that could be had for a reasonable price IMO. That LH relief looks like something the Reds could spare. If I had my choice I'd send Cormier for Izturis. But I'd let them pick any two of Cormier, Shack, Coutlangus and Pelland. I might even go Bray but probably not from Wayne's standpoint (he has another trade to justify).

10-29-2006, 04:10 PM	#4
dougdirt The Boss Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 30,657	Re: Angels shortstops I doubt that Brandon Wood is going anywhere. I think another SS of theirs though could be picked up, just depends what you want to offer. __________________ www.redsminorleagues.com

10-29-2006, 04:14 PM	#5
Will M Brett William Moore Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Crescent Springs KY Posts: 3,511	Re: Angels shortstops I did forget about Izturis. If Izturis could be thought of as an everyday major league SS then I certainly would do Cormier for him. Cormier for 1 year at $2M+ vs a 2nd year SS. Seems like a good trade for the Reds ( who I still think should be looking at 2008 with anything we do in 2007 being a nice bonus). I'd prefer we find a young SS who we could 'pencil into the lineup' for a few years rather than a stop gap ( since I believe we don't have a SS prospect in the high minors ). Bray, Majik & Coffey are the three relievers I would keep ( all young and cheap). I still hope either Coffey or Bray can step up and be a closer.

10-29-2006, 04:21 PM	#6
dougdirt The Boss Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 30,657	Re: Angels shortstops Will, the best bet at SS in the high minors is Paul Janish who is going to be in AA next season to start, and is probably at least a year away if he continues to progress with the bat. __________________ www.redsminorleagues.com

10-29-2006, 04:26 PM	#7
Will M Brett William Moore Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Crescent Springs KY Posts: 3,511	reply to Doug if that is the case then a stop gap SS would be OK. If Janish starts next year at AA then we won't likely see him until mid 2008 even if he progresses as planned ( based on what Krisky has said about prospects having to prove themselves at each level ) - Will

10-29-2006, 05:00 PM	#9
Mario-Rijo HOF CLASS OF '12 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Springfield, Ohio Posts: 8,987	Re: Angels shortstops My thinking says that Griffey (It's a huge reach I know) could still be dealt to a place like Anaheim or Detroit. They both need a LH bat with power, he could DH for either of them and at 10.1 million isn't the worst possible option for either team especially if you anty up say 3-4 mill. Anaheim is desperate for OF's, also he isn't any worse than playing Erstad, Rivera or Garret Anderson out in CF at this point. Of course I could see Edmonds going back there for a reduced price tag. Either way I think something could be worked out. My point to all this is you may be able to pry Orlando Cabrera away for Griffey. Not sure what the difference in salary is but (Cabrera 7.5 Mill in '06) it's possible we could come to some sort of agreement there due to the depth that the Angels have at the position. I believe Griffey would waive his no trade clause to go to one or either of these places, because he knows deep down he has little or no chance to make it to the WS here next year and he's likely done after '07 (IMHO), just look at the decline. And if he DH's a great deal next year his chances improve to get to 600 HR's. I understand Griffey will be extremely difficult to unload and the likelihood of this happening is little to none. But I think it's time for him to go and most everyone including him knows it. It's either that or change positions, perhaps to LF (This is assuming Dunn happens to be dealt) or RF and dropped to about 5th at best in the lineup. So with these thoughts in mind he may be willing to go elsewhere. We may not get alot in return but if we can unload most of his dollars to use elsewhere and free up CF to someone who is more capable of playing it defensively then I think we need to do it. And more importantly I think the organization knows it. __________________ 2008 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2009 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2010 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." --Woody Hayes

10-29-2006, 05:06 PM	#10
mth123 The Big Dog Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 12,659	Re: Angels shortstops I think Anaheim is too far from Griffey's family just like Seattle was. I don't see him going there.

10-30-2006, 01:05 AM	#13
M2 Posting in Dynarama Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Boston Posts: 26,668	Re: Angels shortstops The Angels have also got a SS prospect named Sean Rodriguez in line right behind Wood. Aybar's the odd man out. Veteran with a big contract in front of him, mega prospect right behind him. Somebody's going to get him in trade one of these days. I only hope it will be the Reds. As for Janish, he's either going to get on the Denorfia plan this year (e.g. have a breakthrough) or he's never going to be a prospect. Nice if it happens, but the Reds can't afford to bank on it. If the organization is making "we'll have Paul Janish by 200X" plans, then the franchise is just about irretreivably lost. __________________ Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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