Most over-rated skill in baseball

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by Rojo

My two nominations both involve catchers: 1) Blocking the plate and 2) "framing" pitches. I don't believe the latter really fools the umpire and the former might make the difference a few times a year at best.

I don't believe that "pulling strikes" fools the umpires, but the ability to smoothly "frame" the pitch and give the umpire a good look can really help a pitcher. Jumpy catchers that are all over the place do not help the pitcher or the umpire. If the catcher is moving around to catch a pitch, that tells a lot of umpires that the pitcher has not hit his spot, and I believe, makes them less likely to call a strike.

[GAC]

Jim Edmonds

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Eddie Joost - 1949 - 128 runs scored - 149 walks - .263 BA

Only one player on the A's had over 100 RBI's Eddie scored because he walked a bunch and was on base all the time, despite hitting .263, he walked 78 more times then the league average that season.

No matter how you spin that I'd take it every year, from any player.

Brian Giles: 2006 - 87 runs scored - 104 walks - .374 OBP - .263 BA.

Alfonso Soriano: 2001 - 128 runs scored - 29 walks - .332 OBP - .300 BA.

Cherry picking stats doesn't prove any point. Taking walks has become a bit overrated today. Obviously it is important, but it isn't the end of the story.

[RFS62]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC

I don't believe that "pulling strikes" fools the umpires, but the ability to smoothly "frame" the pitch and give the umpire a good look can really help a pitcher. Jumpy catchers that are all over the place do not help the pitcher or the umpire. If the catcher is moving around to catch a pitch, that tells a lot of umpires that the pitcher has not hit his spot, and I believe, makes them less likely to call a strike.

Exactly right. Watch Matheney if you want to see smooth behind the dish.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Saw some old tape of Johnny Edwards behind the plate. I never really saw him play a lot, but that cat was really smooth with the big glove. Very underated with the catchers of his era.

[traderumor]

Switch hitting. I'd rather have someone learn to hit pitchers of either arm from their strong side of the plate instead of playing the lefty/righty game. See especially Javy Valentin and Felipe Lopez. It is especially frustrating when there is a clear dropoff in OPS for one side over the other.

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC

I don't believe that "pulling strikes" fools the umpires, but the ability to smoothly "frame" the pitch and give the umpire a good look can really help a pitcher. Jumpy catchers that are all over the place do not help the pitcher or the umpire. If the catcher is moving around to catch a pitch, that tells a lot of umpires that the pitcher has not hit his spot, and I believe, makes them less likely to call a strike.

As an umpire myself I couldnt agree more. Especially late in the game when a umpire is tired and maybe the concentration isnt there then yes a catcher who can smoothly "frame" a pitch is invaluable!!

[RFS62]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC

Saw some old tape of Johnny Edwards behind the plate. I never really saw him play a lot, but that cat was really smooth with the big glove. Very underated with the catchers of his era.

I saw him a lot as a kid. I think he held the record for catchers fielding percentage for a while. He was highly respected for his defense.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Brian Giles: 2006 - 87 runs scored - 104 walks - .374 OBP - .263 BA.

Alfonso Soriano: 2001 - 128 runs scored - 29 walks - .332 OBP - .300 BA.

Cherry picking stats doesn't prove any point. Taking walks has become a bit overrated today. Obviously it is important, but it isn't the end of the story.

No one ever said walks were the "end of the story." Accumulating bases is.

[westofyou]

Cherry picking stats doesn't prove any point. Taking walks has become a bit overrated today. Obviously it is important, but it isn't the end of the story.

Of course no one said they were, I said I'd take walks.

You OTOH are try to put words in my mouth.

Talk about cherry picking.

[Slyder]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Switch hitting. I'd rather have someone learn to hit pitchers of either arm from their strong side of the plate instead of playing the lefty/righty game. See especially Javy Valentin and Felipe Lopez. It is especially frustrating when there is a clear dropoff in OPS for one side over the other.

Chipper Jones says hi, glad you werent my hitting coach.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Switch hitting. I'd rather have someone learn to hit pitchers of either arm from their strong side of the plate instead of playing the lefty/righty game. See especially Javy Valentin and Felipe Lopez. It is especially frustrating when there is a clear dropoff in OPS for one side over the other.

SS is a position that switch hitting nullifies lifting a key defensive player late in the game, that's why most SS are RH or switch hit.

[remdog]

The most over-rated skill in baseball:

The ability to keep the stats.

Rem

[Rojo]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC

If the catcher is moving around to catch a pitch, that tells a lot of umpires that the pitcher has not hit his spot, and I believe, makes them less likely to call a strike.

Couldn't that be because the pitcher has not hit his spot. My brief foray into umpiring I was calling balls and strikes based on where it crossed the plate. I didn't even notice where the catcher caught it.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Of course no one said they were, I said I'd take walks.

You OTOH are try to put words in my mouth.

Talk about cherry picking.

You also said this:

Eddie scored because he walked a bunch and was on base all the time, despite hitting .263.

It's a little difficult to prove that, especially since you cannot prove (w/o a ton of research) that most of his runs came after he had walked.

It's also funny that you, w/o a doubt, cherry picked his best year. Why didn't you reference 1947 (114 walks, 76 runs) or 1950 (103 walks, 79 runs)?

Listen, I've been one of the biggest opponents of the "Walks are great" lovefest that takes place on this board and have argued it till the cows came home. But it doesn't guarantee anything.

Many people here fell in love with Hatteberg through the first 4 months of the season. And a lot of that infatuation came from the fact that he walked a lot and had a very impressive OBP. Great.

Now delve deeper...his walk rate stayed pretty static throughout the year, but his production tanked in Aug-Oct. The board turned on him a bit, especially when he turned in a putrid .206/.235/.349 in Sept-Oct. Still a nice OBP, but embarrassing otherwise. But why would anyone turn on him, especially after such a nice OBP?

Again....walks are nice, but give me a hit any day of the week. Walks have been and always will be supplementary to hitting the ball.