Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Cedric

The best SS have the best feet and hands.

Sure they do. The best defenders at any position have the best feet and hands. I just think poor footwork is more a detriment at 2B than SS if the player has the arm strength to compensate.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by mth123

This seems backwards to me. It seems you need better footwork at 2B to turn the DP where SS is more about speed, agility and arm strength. No pivot at SS.

Doesn't the pivot used at 2B to turn a DP come more from leg strength than anything else?

[GAC]

Originally Posted by mth123

Sure they do. The best defenders at any position have the best feet and hands. I just think poor footwork is more a detriment at 2B than SS if the player has the arm strength to compensate.

Footwork (planting and throwing) was the problem they were working on with EE last year.

Playing INF, I always saw your legs as your compass.

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by mth123

Sure they do. The best defenders at any position have the best feet and hands. I just think poor footwork is more a detriment at 2B than SS if the player has the arm strength to compensate.

And he doesn't have the best footwork and mechanics. Why put him at the most important position?

[Matt700wlw]

Ok numbers people.....here's some food


- 2006: .255avg, 9hrs, 55rbis
- 7 errors in 111 games
- '06 Fielding % of .985 would have tied for 4th in majors if he had enough games to qualify -- Felipe Lopez' was .954
- '06 Range factor of 4.36 was better than Jeter, Renteria, Vizquel, Rollins...but equal to Clayton -- Lopez' was 3.88
- '06 Zone Rating was .863, Lopez was .788
- Has hit with pop.....seasons of 18,23 homers......but just 5,9 last two years. Consistently hits 30 doubles
- K's a ton...years of 106 and 126
- .299 OBP last year, .292 for career
- .239 with runners in scoring position last three years
- career high in sb's is 7, career success rate just 59%


(Lance's blog)

[GAC]

Originally Posted by Matt700wlw

Ok numbers people.....here's some numbers

- 2006: .255avg, 9hrs, 55rbis
- 7 errors in 111 games
- '06 Fielding % of .985 would have tied for 4th in majors if he had enough games to qualify -- Felipe Lopez' was .954
- '06 Range factor of 4.36 was better than Jeter, Renteria, Vizquel, Rollins...but equal to Clayton -- Lopez' was 3.88
- '06 Zone Rating was .863, Lopez was .788
- Has hit with pop.....seasons of 18,23 homers......but just 5,9 last two years. Consistently hits 30 doubles
- K's a ton...years of 106 and 126
- .299 OBP last year, .292 for career
- .239 with runners in scoring position last three years
- career high in sb's is 7, career success rate just 59%


(Lance's blog)

Just bat him 8th!

If the team does sign him, his defense will be a plus for sure.

But Krivsky IS going to have to upgrade in some other area for run production/runs allowed.

I still maintain that the tasks he needs to confront cannot be addressed and accomplished in this off-season alone. It's too big of a task.

It has to be done smartly and incrementally.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Cedric

And he doesn't have the best footwork and mechanics. Why put him at the most important position?

I'm probably taking a stronger position than I should because I'm not really convinced that he should move either. I'm just wondering if his footwork would be less of a detriment at SS. I've always thought that to be a good 2B the footwork needs to be impeccable where a SS can get away with it if he has the other tools. The throw from 2B is so short the other tools are really wasted there. Not only does the arm need less strength, but there is also time to knock a ball down and recover and get the runner that SS generally doesn't have so hands aren't quite as important either (although I wouldn't want a guy there with poor hands). If he could play an average SS, I think the Reds could get a better defender at 2B who could also help the offense. It certainly opens a lot of options that are closed right now. And I think Phillips is poor at turning the DP and you may improve both positions by moving him. His real talent is his range and hands and those both would be more valuable at SS than at 2B. If his weakness is less a problem at SS than 2B, moving him may make sense. But if he doesn't have the arm, then it won't work. I suspect he doesn't or the Reds would be going this direction IMO, but as I said, I really don't know how good his arm is considered.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by membengal

Serious question, didn't Brandon Phillips come up as a SS? Doesn't he have the range and arm to be awfully solid over there? Why not Phillips to SS? Has anyone with the Reds addressed that question and answered it? (If so, I missed it, sorry)

Look at the guys available, not alot to choose from. We KNOW Phillips can play GG caliber D at 2B, so if we can get another GG cailber SS why not just leave BP at 2nd?

We need to get another MIF, and Seabass is one of the best available.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by GAC

Just bat him 8th!

If the team does sign him, his defense will be a plus for sure.

But Krivsky IS going to have to upgrade in some other area for run production/runs allowed.

I still maintain that the tasks he needs to confront cannot be addressed and accomplished in this off-season alone. It's too big of a task.

It has to be done smartly and incrementally.

From the sound of Krvisky's comments, that is what he appears to be doing.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by reds44

We KNOW Phillips can play GG caliber D at 2B

This is the part I'm not convinced of. He looks good because we've suffered through Walker, DeLo, Richie and even a little Womack the last few years. Freel looked better than all of them as well, but I know he really isn't that good there. Is BP really that good? He seemed to blow a lot of DP chances last year, but that could be from poor feeds from the other players. I haven't looked at any stats and am basing this on what I saw which I know is very dangerous ground so I could be very wrong.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by reds44

From the sound of Krvisky's comments, that is what he appears to be doing.

You also have to factor in - at least keep in the back of your mind, while scanning the FA market and what needs you have to fill - what young, developing players do you have in-house that could be ready this year and a couple years away.

Knowing I have Bailey almost ready, and who could get a late season call up, is not going to keep me from entering the FA market; but it is going to affect who I go after and how much I want to spend/invest.

Then you have a player like Votto, and in a couple years (when Jr is gone), you may have a Jay Bruce.

It's gotta be done incrementally, identifying the needs, and picking up the pieces here and there over the next couple of years.

I know some may not like hearing that, but that is what I believe it's going to take.

Big splash this winter? I guess it depends on how you define "big splash".

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by jimbo

Exactly. So much talk about how the Reds need to spend spend spend in order to compete, but so much complaining about the Reds spending $5 mil a year on a great SS glove. I really don't think that $5 mil is going to break the bank and I seriously doubt it's the last move Krivsky makes. Instead of judging the offseason in November, let's wait until we have a bigger picture.

No. My two issues are as follows:

1) For a team that does not have $ to burn, this signing doesn't make much sense. They have many issues relating to pitching, yet are willing to spend $5 mil per year on a guy who can't hit? Fielding isn't going to help much with the current staff in place unless AGon is positioned by the Pepsi stacks. And $5 million is a lot of money when they guy isn't good. I'd rather try Phillips at SS and Freel at 2nd with that extra cash to put towards pitching.

2) If I knew for sure that there was still $25 million per year to be spent after this, I would feel more comfortable. But with deficiencies in two other areas which, IMO, are a little more important than fielding (hitting and pitching), I think $5 million is a little steep for someone who doesn't help those areas. Alex Gonzalez is Royce Clayton with a little more pop and a better glove.

Remember this when the Reds are struggling to score and stop the other team from scoring. I would be interested if there is any other team actually considering paying him $ like this. Or is Wayne creating his own market like he did with Maj and Bray. At the press conference, he'll say something like "This shows you how tight the market is for slick fielding SSs who have problems hitting."

Prediction: This contract will be viewed as mini-Milton by August 1st.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by GAC

I don't see it that way at all. Every year it goes the same way with practically everyone waiting for the BIG NAMES to be moved and for someone to open up the gates (so to speak).

When it comes to SS.... what is out there and available, and why would you consider AG "table scraps"?

I sure don't.

It fills a very dire need on this team in the form of defense in a critical position.

I agree that WK still has his work cut out for him, as far as replacing some of the lost run production; but he can do that in other areas. Unless you decide to really spend BIG TIME and acquire a Jeter or ARod type who combine both (O & D), then a majority of your today's SS's that are defensive specialists are typical weak hitters. And those that can hit, can't field.

The table scraps comment wasn't directed towards AG. It was directed towards WK's quote about waiting it out and not rushing into anything.

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

No. My two issues are as follows:

1) For a team that does not have $ to burn, this signing doesn't make much sense. They have many issues relating to pitching, yet are willing to spend $5 mil per year on a guy who can't hit? Fielding isn't going to help much with the current staff in place unless AGon is positioned by the Pepsi stacks.

2) If I knew for sure that there was still $25 million per year to be spent after this, I would feel more comfortable. But with deficiencies in two other areas which, IMO, are a little more important than fielding (hitting and pitching), I think $5 million is a little steep for someone who doesn't help those areas.

Shortstop is the one non-pitching position on this team that desperately needs to be filled and cannot be done so internally. And good fielding is always going to help, particularly when it could, as other have noted, back up groundball pitchers, which is something that everyone's been screaming that the Reds need since GABP opened. Of course I agree that the Reds need to address their pitching problem. But I don't think that one off-season=addressing a single deficiency, and we're a whopping three or four weeks into the offseason with the winter meetings still to come.

Fixing the shortstop problem would take care of a lot defensively in one sweeping move, not only because it gives you a crucial good glove there, but because it solidifies Phillips at second and Freel in the outfield (where I think he belongs). If the Reds were to throw a GG-type at first or left field, I'd think they still have a lot of work to do defensively, and they'd likely still have an offense problem too. Throw in a good glove at shortstop, and I think they're pretty much set defensively (apart from moving Griffey over, but that's still an internal issue). Yes, I'd like the Reds to have more power. But if the defense problem is taken care of, they can work on that and bring in any kind of bat they want without worrying too much about what he does on defense.

And I personally don't think anyone will end up comparing Gonzalez or his contract to Clayton or Milton.

[vaticanplum]

Reports coming in from ESPN that the Red have signed him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2667193