Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

Edabbs, I think I understand where you are comming from, but with Cincinnati
fandom, especially Redszone, sit idley by for the length of time it would take to invest millions in scounting and the farm systems and endoure how many ever more years of crappy teams until the effects started to show?

Unfortuntaley having to play baseball, and win some games while rebuilding makes is (1) much more difficult and (2) much more lengthy process.

I don't think it's feasable for them to announce a "5 year plan" sort of thing and then sit back for 4 more years of dreck.

I know I would. I would rather have the Reds tank it for a few years while loading up on prospects than sit in baseball purgatory while signing low-tier players. And anyway you slice it, that is all the team has done over the past few years. Look at Florida. They tore up their team last winter and were neck and neck with Cincy all season...a few months later. Not years. Months. That's what happens when a small mkt team drafts pitching, pitching, pitching and are active in the international mkts. I would have taken the $14 million given to AGon and used it all for draft picks and international bonuses. Gonzalez will not make this team into a playoff team and he will not be the difference btw October and golfing. $14 million worth of young players will help a lot more than he will.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Ga_Red

There is one person available in this market whom
WK will get that WILL put the Reds into playoff
contention, imo.

(btw this is not a scoop of any kind, just am opinion of what he will do, even if overpaying to do so.)

Hint?

a NL starter, perfect for the GAB.

Who is he?

A free agent?

[Ga_Red]

2/09/07

[M2]

Originally Posted by Ga_Red

There is one person available in this market whom
WK will get that WILL put the Reds into playoff
contention, imo.

(btw this is not a scoop of any kind, just am opinion of what he will do, even if overpaying to do so.)

Hint?

a NL starter, perfect for the GAB.

Who is he?

Jason Jennings and Dontrelle Willis leap to mind. Brandon Webb too. Though I'd be surprised if any of the above got traded.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Ga_Red

Not a free agent pitcher.

A Brave?

[M2]

tr, Felipe ranked 13th among MLB shortstops in Win Shares last season. Kearns also ranked well among RFs. I'd be more specific, but the Hardball Times WS page is crawling today and kicking up a ton of errors.

Anyway, that's a holistic rating and both of those guys finished in the upper half of the rankings.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by M2

tr, Felipe ranked 13th among MLB shortstops in Win Shares last season. Kearns also ranked well among RFs. I'd be more specific, but the Hardball Times WS page is crawling today and kicking up a ton of errors.

Anyway, that's a holistic rating and both of those guys finished in the upper half of the rankings.

Career to date and projections? Average everyday players is how I believe history will view these players, which is also the opinion I believe Krivsky was operating on when he considered the deal. He had to or he would not have done the deal. Now, here I go getting in on a discussion of the trade again.

[NJReds]

Originally Posted by Ga_Red

Not a free agent pitcher.

The only two NL starters (FAs) at a position that we need that I could find were:
Shea Hillenbrand
Cliff Floyd

[TRF]

Originally Posted by traderumor

There are very, very few minor leaguers who have what it takes. These are two AA ballers and the chances of them doing anything but coming up to the major leagues and getting rocked is very slim. The divide between average and below average major league relievers and prospects is most often night and day. Major league hitters are that good. It takes a pretty special prospect to jump to the majors, esp from AA, and have success at the major league level. I appreciate this more each year I watch not only the Reds, but the rest of the league struggle to find guys that can get major league hitters out.

I'd agree except that Bill Bray didn't exactly have a ton of big league experience. In fact he had a total of 23 innings. Now aside from the fact that he's left handed what was it he offered that Salmon didn't? Is it just that he's LH?

Sorry, but not at that price.

And no, they weren't AA pitchers. they were AAA pitchers.

[M2]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Career to date and projections? Average everyday players is how I believe history will view these players, which is also the opinion I believe Krivsky was operating on when he considered the deal. He had to or he would not have done the deal. Now, here I go getting in on a discussion of the trade again.

Felipe was WAAAY above average in 2005. I've never been sold on him staying at SS for long (I think he's an OF and potentially a good one), but you're talking about a kid who can get on base pretty well and who'll probably collect 50+ extra base hits a few more times in his career. Over the next three or four years, he projects to be a pretty good offensive player. His newfound prowess on the bases doesn't hurt either.

Kearns is a Tom Brunansky type, not as good as you wanted, but not a bad guy to have around in the final analysis (and Bruno had character issues too).

Felipe's probably looking at another 1,000 hits. Kearns, dependent on his health (always a crap shoot) is probably looking at five years or so as a production regular in the OF.

They aren't superstars, but in a world where Juan Pierre and Sarge Jr. are seeking $10M a year, those are two pretty nifty players to have in your hip pocket.

Obviously neither of these guys are going to the Hall of Fame, but they're both good enough to help out a large number of teams. They were certainly the two best players in that trade in 2006 and, unless Bray has himself a really good career, they stand to be the two best players in that trade when the historians look back at is as well.

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by M2

Felipe was WAAAY above average in 2005. I've never been sold on him staying at SS for long (I think he's an OF and potentially a good one), but you're talking about a kid who can get on base pretty well and who'll probably collect 50+ extra base hits a few more times in his career. Over the next three or four years, he projects to be a pretty good offensive player. His newfound prowess on the bases doesn't hurt either.

Kearns is a Tom Brunansky type, not as good as you wanted, but not a bad guy to have around in the final analysis (and Bruno had character issues too).

Felipe's probably looking at another 1,000 hits. Kearns, dependent on his health (always a crap shoot) is probably looking at five years or so as a production regular in the OF.

They aren't superstars, but in a world where Juan Pierre and Sarge Jr. are seeking $10M a year, those are two pretty nifty players to have in your hip pocket.

Obviously neither of these guys are going to the Hall of Fame, but they're both good enough to help out a large number of teams. They were certainly the two best players in that trade in 2006 and, unless Bray has himself a really good career, they stand to be the two best players in that trade when the historians look back at is as well.

Felipe is a good player, but he can only be useful for a winning team if he's at another position, IMO.

I'm not sure about his attitude or his temperate, but I don't know if Felipe would be willing to move away from SS. If he wasn't willing or going to be moved by Krivsky than I am glad he's not a part of this team.

I do wish Krivsky could have netted more in return though.

[Heath]

Originally Posted by Ga_Red

Not a free agent pitcher.

The only FA hitters that could have a field day in GABP would be Aubrey Huff and maybe Jose Guillen.

But, we don't DH around these parts.

How many guesses, Ga_Red before you give up the answer?

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by TRF

I'd agree except that Bill Bray didn't exactly have a ton of big league experience. In fact he had a total of 23 innings. Now aside from the fact that he's left handed what was it he offered that Salmon didn't? Is it just that he's LH?

Sorry, but not at that price.

And no, they weren't AA pitchers. they were AAA pitchers.

Medlock pitched the entire year at Chattanooga. He did OK and he is still young, but he also spent his first year in pro ball as a reliever. He was the last guy I considered out of what appear to be legit prospects that I thought would get a shot. I would imagine he gets a look at AAA this year and his year will be 2008 if he is ever gonna make it.

Salmon was promoted to Louisville and pitched 2/3 of his year at AAA, and did very well. His K/9 went up, his WHIP went down, but he's also 26. I would expect him to get his last shot to make the club this year, and I'd say he deserves it.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by M2

Felipe was WAAAY above average in 2005. I've never been sold on him staying at SS for long (I think he's an OF and potentially a good one), but you're talking about a kid who can get on base pretty well and who'll probably collect 50+ extra base hits a few more times in his career. Over the next three or four years, he projects to be a pretty good offensive player. His newfound prowess on the bases doesn't hurt either.

Kearns is a Tom Brunansky type, not as good as you wanted, but not a bad guy to have around in the final analysis (and Bruno had character issues too).

Felipe's probably looking at another 1,000 hits. Kearns, dependent on his health (always a crap shoot) is probably looking at five years or so as a production regular in the OF.

They aren't superstars, but in a world where Juan Pierre and Sarge Jr. are seeking $10M a year, those are two pretty nifty players to have in your hip pocket.

Obviously neither of these guys are going to the Hall of Fame, but they're both good enough to help out a large number of teams. They were certainly the two best players in that trade in 2006 and, unless Bray has himself a really good career, they stand to be the two best players in that trade when the historians look back at is as well.

Agreed on Lopez v.05, but I also think that was a career year. We have a second baseman. The only question on him is if we got a fair return for an overall average major leaguer getting ready to get a paycheck. But then, did we gain with a good field, no hit version getting $5M a year?

[TRF]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Medlock pitched the entire year at Chattanooga. He did OK and he is still young, but he also spent his first year in pro ball as a reliever. He was the last guy I considered out of what appear to be legit prospects that I thought would get a shot. I would imagine he gets a look at AAA this year and his year will be 2008 if he is ever gonna make it.

Salmon was promoted to Louisville and pitched 2/3 of his year at AAA, and did very well. His K/9 went up, his WHIP went down, but he's also 26. I would expect him to get his last shot to make the club this year, and I'd say he deserves it.

Medlock had been a starter until hitting AA. As a starter all he did was produce. He gets a deserved promotion to AA and they convert him to relief. Now, I think that was a mistake, but once again, all he did was produce in that role.

dude can pitch.

Salmon was ready to at least get a look. He had as much chance to succeed as Yan/Maj/Franklin

And all he cost was a roster spot. Same with Shearn.