Hoping this isnt a yawner and the Reds.... - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

redsfan4445 · 11-21-2006, 09:22 AM

Cant do anything to entice fans to come out... and trading both JR and Dunn will make this team with a lousy offense look like the 82-83 version and that will NOT get me to buy higher priced tickets! NOT to mention the great "Mr. Baseball Guy" that doesnt entice good ball players to call the Reds FO saying they want to play for him.. aka Soriano wanting to play for Lou!!! (we didnt need Lou we got the greatest manager in Narron..:thumbdown )

I know its only Nov 21st, but so far i dont see anything that will tell the team that excites a better chance to get to the playoffs.. we already are behind the Cubs, Cardinals and I know Houston will spend...so our competition will be keeping from looking worse than the Pirates and Brewers!!

Im hoping Wayne does the right thing, but Tejada or A-Rod for Dunn in a trade package would be more exciting to me.. but we shall see...

registerthis · 11-21-2006, 09:27 AM

I can't blame Wayne for not diving headfirst into this insane free agent market. Championships aren't decided by which team is more "exciting" during the offseason, it's decided by who makes the best decisions at filling the holes on their team. If one measures a successful offseason by who gave the most lucrative, frivolous contract, then I hope the Reds have one of the most unsuccessful offseasons in franchise history.

We saw what the mentality of "spending for the sake of spending" gets the Reds--a crap pitcher saddled with an unmoveable contract. I don't want any more of those.

terminator · 11-21-2006, 11:29 AM

I agree Wayne's moves are "boring" but for a team with a budget I think he's doing a good job of operating within that constraint so far. He's got a decent infield of EE, Gonzalez, Phillips, Hatteburg and Ross without giving up anything to get them. And our whole infield will cost what -- $8-9MM or so? He's got 2/3 of a good (offensive) outfield in Dunn and Griffey and Freel is signed at a reasonable cost with Deno there at a low cost if he wants him. He got a great starting pitcher for Pena. He's cut bait on some poor performers like White and Williams.

If we could go back in time and unwind the Trade so we could keep Kearns and sign Castro to a one year deal, I'd rate his performance as nearly flawless given the players, resources and time available to him this far. I didn't like bringing in Mays, I wouldn't have traded for Lohse or Cormier or Franklin, but those are mere differences of opinion rather than big mistakes he made. Same with Narron. I may not love him, but if we're not signing a big name manager I don't think it matters very much. We can't give him six months, little money and a bunch of albatross contracts and expect to immediately right the ship. What he's doing makes some sense and we need to see his plan through to the end.

There is plenty of time left for him to fill the holes for next year so we can field a balanced team. We haven't improved yet this offseason, but we haven't gotten any worse either and there's still plenty of time to make up some of our run differential either with a good hitter or pitcher or two. In this FA market, I think signing a hitter or two is more probable. I still don't think we're going to compete next year, but he hasn't made any fatal errors yet IMHO even considering the Trade. We are positioned to have some payroll flexibility in 2008 and 2009 with Milton and Griffey's contracts expiring and we should have some young cheap talent coming up at that point (Cueto, Wood, Votto, etc). Other than maybe passing on the Trade, I'm not sure what else he could have done so far to make us better without spending outrageous amounts of money.

Jpup · 11-21-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsfan4445

Cant do anything to entice fans to come out... and trading both JR and Dunn will make this team with a lousy offense look like the 82-83 version and that will NOT get me to buy higher priced tickets! NOT to mention the great "Mr. Baseball Guy" that doesnt entice good ball players to call the Reds FO saying they want to play for him.. aka Soriano wanting to play for Lou!!! (we didnt need Lou we got the greatest manager in Narron..:thumbdown )

I know its only Nov 21st, but so far i dont see anything that will tell the team that excites a better chance to get to the playoffs.. we already are behind the Cubs, Cardinals and I know Houston will spend...so our competition will be keeping from looking worse than the Pirates and Brewers!!

Im hoping Wayne does the right thing, but Tejada or A-Rod for Dunn in a trade package would be more exciting to me.. but we shall see...

To get A-Rod, it would take Dunn and Homer(and probably something else). Would you like to do that? Would you like to have Soriano on the Reds for what the Cubs are paying him? Talk about a mess.

cumberlandreds · 11-21-2006, 12:47 PM

I would rather see Krivsky build a good solid farm sytem than spend wildly in this free agent market. That's what he needs to set his sights to and I think he and Castellini are doing just that. In the long run the Reds will be the better for it. Not paying multi millions to someone who would be long gone from the roster.

redsmetz · 11-21-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cumberlandreds

I would rather see Krivsky build a good solid farm sytem than spend wildly in this free agent market. That's what he needs to set his sights to and I think he and Castellini are doing just that. In the long run the Reds will be the better for it. Not paying multi millions to someone who would be long gone from the roster.

That's why patience is the most important thing we Reds fans can use. It takes time and it's step by step. I think we can field a competitive team, but in the long run, I want us to be doing that year in and year out.

George Anderson · 11-21-2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cumberlandreds

I would rather see Krivsky build a good solid farm sytem than spend wildly in this free agent market. That's what he needs to set his sights to and I think he and Castellini are doing just that. In the long run the Reds will be the better for it. Not paying multi millions to someone who would be long gone from the roster.

This is what I have been harping on forever. The glory years of this franchise were built on a strong farm system. Spend money on scouting and developing players similar to what we did in the 70's and mid 80's and we will be back on top in no time!! Unless a small market team like the Reds has a owner who could care less about making money and will go out and throw money after every quality free agent out there,then building a strong farm system is essential to being a contender year in and year out.

SeeinRed · 11-21-2006, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsfan4445

NOT to mention the great "Mr. Baseball Guy" that doesnt entice good ball players to call the Reds FO saying they want to play for him.. aka Soriano wanting to play for Lou!!! (we didnt need Lou we got the greatest manager in Narron..:thumbdown ).

There is a huge flaw in that logic. How many players do you think called the FO to say they wanted to play for Lou after his second season as manager? How many players in todays game do you think even consider what manager they want to play for in their decision? Money is a bigger factor IMO. I agree that the Reds will have trouble drawing fans at the beginning of the year without a visible splash in the FA or trade market this winter, but it all comes down to winning. If you build a team that can win, you will draw a crowd no matter who is on that team. Relax, the idea is to win, not to thow money around in hopes that fans will come. If you are however waiting for the "big one," then there's good news for you. The busiest time of the offseason hasn't even begun.

Hobo · 11-21-2006, 02:33 PM

The Reds won last year and still no fans showed up, Unfortunately the average fan doesn't care about the minor leagues and whose coming up, they want names.

SeeinRed · 11-21-2006, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobo

The Reds won last year and still no fans showed up, Unfortunately the average fan doesn't care about the minor leagues and whose coming up, they want names.

They didn't win. A near .500 team isn't the same as a winning team. Especially when the team has been so bad for so long. It takes consistentcy. You have to build a winner, not throw a team out there that you hope can get lucky and win. This team is no where close to a winner right now. Last year is not a good example of what winning will do with the Reds fan base.

jmac · 11-21-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsfan4445

we already are behind the Cubs, Cardinals and I know Houston will spend...so our competition will be keeping from looking worse than the Pirates and Brewers!!

Im hoping Wayne does the right thing, but Tejada or A-Rod for Dunn in a trade package would be more exciting to me.. but we shall see...

dont think i agree totally here.
soriano does not automatically put cubs above reds.
stl....carpentar then...weaver (?)...then ???
stros....oswalt then ???......then ?????
right now none of the others look unbeatable.they may and probably will do something before ST but i have a feelin we will too.
i dont think with signing of alex gonzalez , a-rod or tejada would be on wayne k's list.

KoryMac5 · 11-21-2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeeinRed

They didn't win. A near .500 team isn't the same as a winning team. Especially when the team has been so bad for so long. It takes consistentcy. You have to build a winner, not throw a team out there that you hope can get lucky and win. This team is no where close to a winner right now. Last year is not a good example of what winning will do with the Reds fan base.

The Cardinals were not even close to being a winning team at the end of last season and yet they managed to win it all and be close to .500 However your point is correct that winning organizations continue to field winning teams. St. Louis and Atlanta come to mind. I feel that Bob will follow the blueprint he learned with the redbirds and bring that committment here to the Reds. It will probably take another year or two before we see it in the seats though.

11-21-2006, 09:22 AM	#1
redsfan4445 Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cincinnati Ohio Posts: 2,732	Hoping this isnt a yawner and the Reds.... Cant do anything to entice fans to come out... and trading both JR and Dunn will make this team with a lousy offense look like the 82-83 version and that will NOT get me to buy higher priced tickets! NOT to mention the great "Mr. Baseball Guy" that doesnt entice good ball players to call the Reds FO saying they want to play for him.. aka Soriano wanting to play for Lou!!! (we didnt need Lou we got the greatest manager in Narron..:thumbdown ) I know its only Nov 21st, but so far i dont see anything that will tell the team that excites a better chance to get to the playoffs.. we already are behind the Cubs, Cardinals and I know Houston will spend...so our competition will be keeping from looking worse than the Pirates and Brewers!! Im hoping Wayne does the right thing, but Tejada or A-Rod for Dunn in a trade package would be more exciting to me.. but we shall see...

11-21-2006, 09:27 AM	#2
registerthis Harry Chiti Fan Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 5,872	Re: Hoping this isnt a yawner and the Reds.... I can't blame Wayne for not diving headfirst into this insane free agent market. Championships aren't decided by which team is more "exciting" during the offseason, it's decided by who makes the best decisions at filling the holes on their team. If one measures a successful offseason by who gave the most lucrative, frivolous contract, then I hope the Reds have one of the most unsuccessful offseasons in franchise history. We saw what the mentality of "spending for the sake of spending" gets the Reds--a crap pitcher saddled with an unmoveable contract. I don't want any more of those. __________________ We'll burn that bridge when we get to it.

11-21-2006, 11:29 AM	#3
terminator Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 308	Re: Hoping this isnt a yawner and the Reds.... I agree Wayne's moves are "boring" but for a team with a budget I think he's doing a good job of operating within that constraint so far. He's got a decent infield of EE, Gonzalez, Phillips, Hatteburg and Ross without giving up anything to get them. And our whole infield will cost what -- $8-9MM or so? He's got 2/3 of a good (offensive) outfield in Dunn and Griffey and Freel is signed at a reasonable cost with Deno there at a low cost if he wants him. He got a great starting pitcher for Pena. He's cut bait on some poor performers like White and Williams. If we could go back in time and unwind the Trade so we could keep Kearns and sign Castro to a one year deal, I'd rate his performance as nearly flawless given the players, resources and time available to him this far. I didn't like bringing in Mays, I wouldn't have traded for Lohse or Cormier or Franklin, but those are mere differences of opinion rather than big mistakes he made. Same with Narron. I may not love him, but if we're not signing a big name manager I don't think it matters very much. We can't give him six months, little money and a bunch of albatross contracts and expect to immediately right the ship. What he's doing makes some sense and we need to see his plan through to the end. There is plenty of time left for him to fill the holes for next year so we can field a balanced team. We haven't improved yet this offseason, but we haven't gotten any worse either and there's still plenty of time to make up some of our run differential either with a good hitter or pitcher or two. In this FA market, I think signing a hitter or two is more probable. I still don't think we're going to compete next year, but he hasn't made any fatal errors yet IMHO even considering the Trade. We are positioned to have some payroll flexibility in 2008 and 2009 with Milton and Griffey's contracts expiring and we should have some young cheap talent coming up at that point (Cueto, Wood, Votto, etc). Other than maybe passing on the Trade, I'm not sure what else he could have done so far to make us better without spending outrageous amounts of money.

11-21-2006, 12:47 PM	#5
cumberlandreds Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Sterling VA Posts: 7,847	Re: Hoping this isnt a yawner and the Reds.... I would rather see Krivsky build a good solid farm sytem than spend wildly in this free agent market. That's what he needs to set his sights to and I think he and Castellini are doing just that. In the long run the Reds will be the better for it. Not paying multi millions to someone who would be long gone from the roster. __________________ Reds Fan Since 1971

11-21-2006, 02:33 PM	#9
Hobo Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 742 Evergreen Terrace Posts: 189	Re: Hoping this isnt a yawner and the Reds.... The Reds won last year and still no fans showed up, Unfortunately the average fan doesn't care about the minor leagues and whose coming up, they want names. __________________ Visit your local Psychiatrist, There may not be bugs crawling on you.

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