Bengals vs. Steelers - Week 17

[remdog]

It would have been easier for me to take if Denver had won. I watched the end of that game here and almost tossed my pizza. If I'm that upset as a casual fan, every single Bengal player better be beating his head on a wall somewhere.

I hope everyone of the Bengals gets up every morning from now until training camp, looks in the mirror and thinks about this. And I hope the next thing they think about is dedicating themselves to only one goal: winning the Super Bowl in 2008.

Rem

[mth123]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeRedleg

That's the thing, if Marvin would take a bit of character into account when drafting, he wouldn't have ever taken Thurmond in the first place and they maybe wouldn't have been shorthanded there this season.

And Pollack? Tough luck, but I don't necessarily think he was a guaranteed impact player. I thought he was a bit of a reach. Sad, but we'll never know for sure one way or the other.

Marvin better clean the cancerous tumors out of the lockerroom and focus the entire draft on defense (ok, maybe a TE too).

He also needs to make sure that he re-signs everyone that has their contract up on the offense side of the ball. Anyone know who's up? I think Steinbach is, but since Willie has been re-signed we could franchise him, right?

Agree, but it looked like the plan was to go out and get a 2 ton defensive tackle like Sam Adams to tie up the blockers so that the Linebackers could make the plays. Then the Linebackers he was counting on as the playmakers weren't on the field. That has to have an impact IMO.

Not sure that is a bad scheme but one guy let him down and the other was hurt. I can blame Marvin for basing so much of his defense on Thurman I guess, but it isn't really an X's and O's thing. He took a chance that he could turn Thurman around because the reward was high. I'd prefer not taking those chances anymore.

[WMR]

Is Odell Thurman going to be back next season? I think they'll give him another shot.

[George Foster]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I haven't read through this thread because I'm sure it is as ugly as that loss was, but one thing that really made this loss sting is that the Steelers were out there doing some serious head hunting today and seemed to be just as concerned with driving helmets into heads, chests and guts and slamming guys to the ground as they were about winning a football game. Fortunately, flags were thrown on two of the cheap shots, and Ike Taylor's hit was legal but head hunting as well. Just cheap, dirty football and all blessings to their 8-8 season as well. I hate the Steelers.

After the Palmer hit, I told my wife, "If Palmer is hurt, the Bengals better make sure that Ben is too injured to play next season." He (Palmer) finished the game but their was no "response" to the personal foul on Palmer. There needed to be.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by George Foster

After the Palmer hit, I told my wife, "If Palmer is hurt, the Bengals better make sure that Ben is too injured to play next season." He (Palmer) finished the game but their was no "response" to the personal foul on Palmer. There needed to be.

I don't know about that. As much as it stunk to lose in overtime, it would have been worse to have the Bengals lose by giving up a first down by doing something stupid. The retaliation should have been to win the game and send the Steelers home to cry in their beers.

[George Foster]

Does anybody know how far under the salary cap the Bengals are? I mean the window of opportunity is only going to be open for about 3-5 years with this offense, if they keep everyone. They need to open up the check book on the offensive line and defensive line and give this team a real chance to make a run at the Super Bowl.

[Redhook]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

Is Odell Thurman going to be back next season? I think they'll give him another shot.

Stick a fork in him. He's done with the Bengals.

I wish he wasn't, but he's gone (not officially yet, but he will be).

[cincy jacket]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

Is Odell Thurman going to be back next season? I think they'll give him another shot.

Even if the Bengals decide to keep him, I think he is suspended by the league for the first four games. His year long suspension for his second violation didn't start until week 5. So that would carry over for the first four weeks of next season. The way Marvin has talked though I would be surprised to see him back. If he had been around this year though the Bengals are a playoff team. Oh well time to move on. Does anyone know what draft pick number we have?

[macro]

Originally Posted by cincy jacket

Does anyone know what draft pick number we have?

It looks like they will select 18th...

http://football.about.com/od/nfldraf...draftorder.htm


1. Oakland (2-14)
2. Detroit (3-13)
3. Cleveland (4-12)
4. Tampa Bay (4-12)
5. Arizona (5-11)
6. Washington (5-11)
7. Minnesota (6-10)
8. Houston (6-10)
9. Miami (6-10)
10. Atlanta (7-9)
11. San Fransico (7-9)
12. Buffalo (7-9)
13. St. Louis (8-8)
14. Carolina (8-8)
15. Green Bay (8-8)
16. Pittsburgh (8-8)
17. Jacksonville (8-8)
18. Cincinnati (8-8)
19. Tennessee (8-8)
*20. NY Giants (8-8)
*21. Denver (9-7)
*22. New England (from Seattle) (9-7)
*23. Dallas (9-7)
*24. Kansas City (9-7)
*25. New Orleans (10-6)
*26. NY Jets (10-6)
*27. Philadelphia (10-6)
*28. New England (12-4)
*29. Indianapolis (12-4)
*30. Baltimore (13-3)
*31. Chicago (13-3)
*32. San Diego (14-2)

*Subject to results of the playoffs

[GAC]

Originally Posted by MWM

I'm more concerned about on the field charcater, which the Bengals sorely lack (although the off-the-field stuff does bother me as well). But the Bengals lack leadership and have too many *me first* guys who like to whine and complain. The Bengals need some players on the team who will light a fire on the defensive side of the ball. I loathe Ray Lewis, but the Bengals need someone like him on defense. They're way too lacksadaisical.

I thoroughly agree Mike. The 2007 edition of the Bengals shows that you can have talent, yet it takes more then that to win. They have some players who play with that "fire"; but that fire is like a "tude" (a stick of dynamite waiting to go off). A "tude" that is more about the individual on the field, then the team as a cohesive unit. And there seems to be no one on that field to reign them in. Carson tries, but I don't know how effective he is.

There seems to be no "stand out" guy on the defensive side. You would think it would be someone like a Justin Smith.

I thought the situation with Pittsburgh's Willie Colon was hilarious. Pitt had driven the ball down to the Bengal's 5 yd line, kept the drive alive, and this rookie gets a 15 yd taunting penalty that puts the ball back to the 20.

They showed "the chin". Cowher, at that moment, wanted a piece of Colon. And Colon was going nowhere near Cowher or looking in his direction.

But just the camera shots of Cowher motioning/trying to get this kid's attention was hilarious. He finally did. But what impressed me - and regardless of what anyone thinks of Cowher, because I think he is a good coach - was the camera shot of Cowher's one-on-one with this rookie. He was letting him have it, probably letting him know just how stupid his actions were and how it cost the team. But afterwards, Cowher pats him on the helmet and sends him back in there.

That's coaching. Cowher is a motivator. The players have a fear, and at the same time, a respect for him.

How often do you see that on the Bengal's sideline and with Lewis?

The players PLAY FOR Cowher. Do the Bengals players do the same for Marvin?

I like Marvin Lewis. And maybe Marvin is the type of guy that likes to deal with "situations" privately (like his benching of Henry). But I also believe you have to show that on the sideline too during the game. I have seen Marvin try to say stuff to players as they walk to the sideline and after they've done something bonehead, but the player just kind of walks right by Marvin. And Marvin seems to lets it slide.

It's just not about control in that locker room, but also control on that field (sidelines) too.

That is the difference I see between a Marvin Lewis and say a Parcells, Cowher, and previous coaching greats like Lombardi, Brown, and Stram.

Marvin is a great evaluator of talent and assembling a team. But does he possess those characteristics of being a motivator? That person who grabs the bull by the horns, takes charge, and is both respected and feared by his players?

[RedsBaron]

Originally Posted by George Foster

Does anybody know how far under the salary cap the Bengals are? I mean the window of opportunity is only going to be open for about 3-5 years with this offense, if they keep everyone. They need to open up the check book on the offensive line and defensive line and give this team a real chance to make a run at the Super Bowl.

I was thinking the same thing. If anything, the window will probably close within another three seasons. If this group of Bengals are to make a Super Bowl run, 2007 is critical.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by GAC

I thoroughly agree Mike. The 2007 edition of the Bengals shows that you can have talent, yet it takes more then that to win. They have some players who play with that "fire"; but that fire is like a "tude" (a stick of dynamite waiting to go off). A "tude" that is more about the individual on the field, then the team as a cohesive unit. And there seems to be no one on that field to reign them in. Carson tries, but I don't know how effective he is.

There seems to be no "stand out" guy on the defensive side. You would think it would be someone like a Justin Smith.

I thought the situation with Pittsburgh's Willie Colon was hilarious. Pitt had driven the ball down to the Bengal's 5 yd line, kept the drive alive, and this rookie gets a 15 yd taunting penalty that puts the ball back to the 20.

They showed "the chin". Cowher, at that moment, wanted a piece of Colon. And Colon was going nowhere near Cowher or looking in his direction.

But just the camera shots of Cowher motioning/trying to get this kid's attention was hilarious. He finally did. But what impressed me - and regardless of what anyone thinks of Cowher, because I think he is a good coach - was the camera shot of Cowher's one-on-one with this rookie. He was letting him have it, probably letting him know just how stupid his actions were and how it cost the team. But afterwards, Cowher pats him on the helmet and sends him back in there.

That's coaching. Cowher is a motivator. The players have a fear, and at the same time, a respect for him.

How often do you see that on the Bengal's sideline and with Lewis?

The players PLAY FOR Cowher. Do the Bengals players do the same for Marvin?

I like Marvin Lewis. And maybe Marvin is the type of guy that likes to deal with "situations" privately (like his benching of Henry). But I also believe you have to show that on the sideline too during the game. I have seen Marvin try to say stuff to players as they walk to the sideline and after they've done something bonehead, but the player just kind of walks right by Marvin. And Marvin seems to lets it slide.

It's just not about control in that locker room, but also control on that field (sidelines) too.

That is the difference I see between a Marvin Lewis and say a Parcells, Cowher, and previous coaching greats like Lombardi, Brown, and Stram.

Marvin is a great evaluator of talent and assembling a team. But does he possess those characteristics of being a motivator? That person who grabs the bull by the horns, takes charge, and is both respected and feared by his players?

You've got a point, but Cowher has also been a head coach much longer than Lewis and has had time for his philosophy to become ingrained within the team. Cowher has the luxury of knowing that he has had a hand in selecting every guy on that team. He doesn't worry about guys "buying in" to his philosophy because he likely identified guys who would "buy in" before they joined the team.

I think Lewis has gone a long way toward changing the "culture" of the Bengals, but still has some work to do. Up till now, I think he has been working from the position of trying to get everyone to "buy in," regardless of whether they "bought in" when they joined the team. So right now I think he still has to spend his time evangelizing to some of his players to get everyone to "buy in."

I think the core is there, but Lewis needs to get better at identifying those who "buy in" when they are drafted. I'm not talking about the off-the-field character issues. Even the best teams have those guys. I'm talking about guys who buy into the coach's philosophy and work ethic. So far Lewis has been drafting "best talent available." Unfortunately, this brings in guys like Henry and Thurman, who are incredibly talented but who I don't believe buy into the culture Lewis is trying to promote. I think he needs to start identifying guys not just on talent, but also as to whether they will fit in with the culture of this team.

[traderumor]

GAC,

Lewis has had plenty of confrontations with his players on the sidelines, immediately after making stupid bonehead plays like the one you mentioned. How many times have you seen him in Chad's face over the years? I can recall several.

It is very simple. The Bengals need a better D. Hopefully the draft and free agency will be kind to them this year.

[dsmith421]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I hate the Steelers.

They really are just a classless franchise, aren't they?

At some stage we're going to have to fight fire with fire.

[flyer85]

hmm

It's a combination of ... players who - by the admission of their head coach - are still more concerned about "me" than "team."

Blame sits at the feet of a head coach whose game management, timeout usage, personnel selection and apparent lack of control in his team's locker room are contributing to undisciplined and inconsistent play on the field.

"Sometimes you have to get smart, selfless players who understand football," Anderson said.