Streetcars in Cincy?

[Heath]

Originally Posted by Matt700wlw

How's the banks project going?

Is that the project that the county is making financial institutions keep their names for a period of 5 years so we aren't renaming the Central Trust Tower at the expense of the city?

[Ltlabner]

Will the street cars that run from over the rhine be armor plated to protect the hordes of tourists they will attract from the random stray bullets that wiz around from time to time in that area?

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

Will the street cars that run from over the rhine be armor plated to protect the hordes of tourists they will attract from the random stray bullets that wiz around from time to time in that area?

When the Banks is finished, everyone will put down their weapons and treat each other with brotherly love.

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Whup, forgot about the Banks. Once they get built, Cincinnati will have a cultural rennaisance. We won't need streetcars cause we'll just fly to work under our own power. When the Banks are built, the Reds will begin their run of 20 World Series championships in a row, the Bengals will win the Super Bowl so often they will start calling the playoffs, the Cincinnati Bengals invitational and they will cancel the Crosstown Shootout since the Bearcats and Muskies will meet in the NCAA Finals each year.

Naaah.

[SunDeck]

Hey, I think I can see Chip down there!

[Heath]

Originally Posted by Chip R

When the Banks is finished, everyone will put down their weapons and treat each other with brotherly love.

Only if Jim Coombs or Chris Denorfia gets elected to city council.......

[KronoRed]

Ahh the banks...

Come on, who needs it? we love that empty ditch right next to our Reds stadium dont we?

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by SunDeck

Light rail is not a bad idea if the purpose is to move people around the metropolitan area efficiently and to improve access to the urban core. But streetcars? I have a hard time understanding how planting tracks in the street A) is more efficient than buses or B) is a better way to spend transportation dollars in a small downtown.

A.) Even with ridership growing in the wake of high gas prices, there is still a large social stigma attached to riding the bus. I imagine if you did a show of hands, more people would feel comfortable riding around downtown on a train or streetcar (especially with children) than would riding around on a bus. The bus, as a mode of transportation, has gotten a bum rap (no pun intended) as being unsafe and mainly suited for poor people.

Further, streetcar lines create easily recognizeable routes that are repeated as opposed to scheduled. Anything done downtown would be fairly simple -- cars run continuously on the line and makes stops at X, Y, and Z. This is contrasted to the bus system, which requires getting a map ahead of time and working out the actual bus schedule to fit with wherever you are attempting to go.

B.) Having good inner-city transportation offers an opportunity to grow the downtown area. There are lots of areas of town that are underdeveloped simply because they aren't close to any major destinations. This is especially true on the western edge of downtown. There is lots of opportunity for redevelopment in that area -- especially given it's close proximity to the stadium and the museum center -- and having reliable and regular transportation to and from that area to other parts of downtown could help spur development. Trains and Streetcars offer the opportunity to move people from their places of busines downtown to bars and nightlife in other parts of town or to sporting events at the stadium, or a combination of all three.

So yeah, it's a small downtown -- but that's only because it's been dying steadily for the past few decades. Something like a streetcar line, if coupled with smart urban renewal, could do a lot for the city. It has to be both, though -- one need only look at Detroit to see that an inner-city mass transit line (the infamous "People Mover") alone won't solve problems if there is no place that anyone wants to ride it to.

[Cedric]

Something is needed. After spending plenty of time in Chicago and Washington DC I am amazed that we have nothing like it here. I would vote yes without even thinking twice if they ever let us vote for a light rail again.

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

A.) Even with ridership growing in the wake of high gas prices, there is still a large social stigma attached to riding the bus. I imagine if you did a show of hands, more people would feel comfortable riding around downtown on a train or streetcar (especially with children) than would riding around on a bus. The bus, as a mode of transportation, has gotten a bum rap (no pun intended) as being unsafe and mainly suited for poor people.

Further, streetcar lines create easily recognizeable routes that are repeated as opposed to scheduled. Anything done downtown would be fairly simple -- cars run continuously on the line and makes stops at X, Y, and Z. This is contrasted to the bus system, which requires getting a map ahead of time and working out the actual bus schedule to fit with wherever you are attempting to go.

B.) Having good inner-city transportation offers an opportunity to grow the downtown area. There are lots of areas of town that are underdeveloped simply because they aren't close to any major destinations. This is especially true on the western edge of downtown. There is lots of opportunity for redevelopment in that area -- especially given it's close proximity to the stadium and the museum center -- and having reliable and regular transportation to and from that area to other parts of downtown could help spur development. Trains and Streetcars offer the opportunity to move people from their places of busines downtown to bars and nightlife in other parts of town or to sporting events at the stadium, or a combination of all three.

So yeah, it's a small downtown -- but that's only because it's been dying steadily for the past few decades. Something like a streetcar line, if coupled with smart urban renewal, could do a lot for the city. It has to be both, though -- one need only look at Detroit to see that an inner-city mass transit line (the infamous "People Mover") alone won't solve problems if there is no place that anyone wants to ride it to.

Normally I would advocate a turning around those riconkulous bus attitudes, but in this case I think CE is right. Cincinnatians are very fond of anything that can be remotely associated with the word "quaint". streetcars fit this bill. Hoo-ha.

[Chip R]

One difference is that NY and Chicago kept their Els while cities like Cincy got rid of theirs. Gas was cheap and cars were getting more stylish and were becoming status symbols rather than just modes of transportation. Who would have thought gas would get so expensive then? And NY and Chicago are much larger than Cincy is.

Like I said, spending $160K on a study is nothing. It's chump change. Even if the study comes back and says they should do it, they don't have to do anything. And even if they did do it and voters approved it - not bloody likely - it would still take many years to get it done. Then, when it's done, people will have to actually use it enough so it is worth what they spent on it. They might use it a lot right away, like a kid with a new toy. But then after while they will figure that so many people are using it, that the traffic on I-71 and I-75 will be so light that it will be a breeze getting to work and back. And then you are back where you started from. And if gas prices go down and settle around $1.50-$1.75 a gallon, where's the incentive to use the light rail?

And who's to say the people they get to put the light rail plan together know what they are doing and will do it at that price? Let's say you approve $300M to spend on it in 2009. Then let's say it'll take 10 years to complete the project. $300M in 2009 isn't going to be $300M in 2012 or 2019.

Personally, I'm all for it as long as it's done right and it's not a boondoggle. But I've lived here long enough to be skeptical that the city and the county can do it right and not let it be a boondoggle.

[DoogMinAmo]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

I really wish they would develop a rail network to connect Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati. I would love the idea of being able to live in one city and have multiple cities to choose from in which to pursue my career.

There has been talk of this and how relatively inexpensively it could be done through using exising rail lines. From having seen first hand how busy 71 is between these cities, and how crowded the Greyhound can get, I am a huge supporter of such an option.

Oh, and speaking of bus stigmas, everything you hear about bus riders on Greyhounds is eerily true.

[paintmered]

Originally Posted by Chip R

One difference is that NY and Chicago kept their Els while cities like Cincy got rid of theirs. Gas was cheap and cars were getting more stylish and were becoming status symbols rather than just modes of transportation. Who would have thought gas would get so expensive then? And NY and Chicago are much larger than Cincy is.

Like I said, spending $160K on a study is nothing. It's chump change. Even if the study comes back and says they should do it, they don't have to do anything. And even if they did do it and voters approved it - not bloody likely - it would still take many years to get it done. Then, when it's done, people will have to actually use it enough so it is worth what they spent on it. They might use it a lot right away, like a kid with a new toy. But then after while they will figure that so many people are using it, that the traffic on I-71 and I-75 will be so light that it will be a breeze getting to work and back. And then you are back where you started from. And if gas prices go down and settle around $1.50-$1.75 a gallon, where's the incentive to use the light rail?

And who's to say the people they get to put the light rail plan together know what they are doing and will do it at that price? Let's say you approve $300M to spend on it in 2009. Then let's say it'll take 10 years to complete the project. $300M in 2009 isn't going to be $300M in 2012 or 2019.

Personally, I'm all for it as long as it's done right and it's not a boondoggle. But I've lived here long enough to be skeptical that the city and the county can do it right and not let it be a boondoggle.

I think this is a much more feasible option than the light rail proposal of a few years ago. First, no land would have to be acquired since the tracks are placed on the street. Also, this sounds like it is a much smaller scale project only servicing downtown, OTR and possibly CUF. So the sticker shock isn't going to be anywhere close to what it was for the light rail proposal.

All I know is that if it was in place now around the UC area, I would be riding it darn near everyday. And I've never been in a metro bus in my life.

But as you said Chip, there's plenty of reason to believe that either the city won't get it done, or won't get it done properly. Competence is hard to come by around city hall.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Personally, I'm all for it as long as it's done right and it's not a boondoggle. But I've lived here long enough to be skeptical that the city and the county can do it right and not let it be a boondoggle.

Knowing the dynamic duo of the city and county they would build a light rail system that only takes passengers from underneath the suspension bridge out to the old Forest Fair Mall. With luck they would run a spur out to Stubenville, Ohio. It would take 17 years to build at a cost 5 times more than original estimates. The price per trip would be $87.89 one way and people would still stay away from downtown at all costs.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

Knowing the dynamic duo of the city and county they would build a light rail system that only takes passengers from underneath the suspension bridge out to the old Forest Fair Mall. With luck they would run a spur out to Stubenville, Ohio. It would take 17 years to build at a cost 5 times more than original estimates. The price per trip would be $87.89 one way and people would still stay away from downtown at all costs.