Marty Brennaman slams Adam Dunn....again.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

Marge Schott's record as owner speaks for herself. During her reign as owner only Ted Turner won more games in the NL. She was a little strange no doubt, but being a Reds fan was a lot more enjoyable winning with her as owner.

Marge's victory was rather pyrrhic in nature. In the early years she was able to live off of Bob Howsam's rebuilding of the farm system. But during her drive to get a World Series, she destroyed that farm system to the degree that Jim Bowden pretty much relied on smoke and mirrors (and getting lucky gambling on pitching rehab projects) to keep the team competitive into the 90s. And lets not forget such brilliant moves as letting Davey Johnson go (I've heard rumors it was because he lived with his wife before they were married) in favor of Ray Knight (rumored to be because she liked his wife, Nancy Lopez).

I'd say the success of the franchise during her reign was more a tribute to the baseball minds working within the skewed financial structure she mandated. Sure she'd let them go out and make a trade for a pitcher at the trade deadline if the team was close, but what good would that do when she wasn't putting any money into scouting and development? I imagine they could have won a few more WS if Marge hadn't starved the farm system of cash and chased off the system's top talent evaluators, coaches and minor league instructors. Team Clark, who knows a thing or two, has said that the Reds' philosophy at the farm level is to give the job to the lowest bidder. I think that philosophy started with one Marge Unnewehr Schott. Couple that with her behavior when the ballot initiative for the new stadiums came up and it's likely that, had MLB not forced her out, we could be looking at the Charlotte/Las Vegas/Portland Reds.

In my mind, Marge's statement about scouts, something to the effect of "All they do is get paid to watch ballgames," is right up there with "I'd rather have hustle than home runs" as a sign that someone doesn't have a complete grasp on what it takes to run a successful ball club in the long run.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by pedro

It's never good for an employee to denigrate a company's assets. never.

I guess that's just a fundamental dissagreement that I have with most folks on this subject. I have zero respect for company men who never have a bad thing to say about their company/product.

Marty' wrong about Dunn's value, there I agree with you. But that's a totally different subject than he should never be negative about the team. Especially when the fans can clearly see/hear that they are blowing up durring a given game/or season.

[gonelong]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

True, when many people think Reds they think Marty B. Being around 30 years, and being so good will do that.

Then again, my season ticket package last year had pictures of all the players, not Marty.

All of the billboards around town (what few of them I see) all have players pictures, not Martys.

When I go to reds.com I see pictures of players, coaches and on field activities.

When I go to the Reds hall of fame I see lots of exibits about Reds players.

When I go to GABP I see statues out front of former past great players.

When I go to the Reds merchasdise outlets at GABP I see a lot of jersey's, hats and other apparel with players names (past and present) on them.

Marty is one of their marketing tools, indeed. Is he the only one, far from it. Is he the one the Reds have chosen to invest all of their effort in? Don't know that any of us know that answer.

How many games a year do you listen to on the Radio?

GL

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by gonelong

How many games a year do you listen to on the Radio?

GL

I couldn't put a number on it, other than to say, "most of them".

[pedro]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

I guess that's just a fundamental dissagreement that I have with most folks on this subject. I have zero respect for company men who never have a bad thing to say about their company/product.

Marty' wrong about Dunn's value, there I agree with you. But that's a totally different subject than he should never be negative about the team. Especially when the fans can clearly see/hear that they are blowing up durring a given game/or season.

No one is asking Marty to blow sunshine up the players skirts. OTOH, it's clearly evident to me that Marty personalizes his dislike of certain players in a way that no other announcer I have ever heard does. And I listen to a lot of other announcers. Marty traffics in vindictive diatribes. You may find it it charming and harmless, but I certainly don't.

[gonelong]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

I couldn't put a number on it, other than to say, "most of them".

How many pictures of the players are you looking at during that time?
How many billboards are you seeing during that time?
How many players exhibits are you looking at during that time?
Can you see the players statues out front of GABP?
Can you see the Reds merchasdise outlets at GABP? The jersey's, hats and other apparel with players names (past and present) on them?

At that point in time, for most people listening to the game, Marty is it. Marty is the marketing.

Now ask yourself, how many games do you listen to vs. watching on TV vs. attending?

Which single entity of those you listed occupies your conciousness during the season. Likely 10s of hours apiece vs. the 100s of hours listenting to Marty.

GL

[RANDY IN INDY]

Heard Marty on Charlie Steiner's show on XM radio this afternoon. He was giving his take on the Griffey situation and that he thought it was best for the team if Jr. was in right field on Opening Day. They talked about Jr. saying that he would move willingly if the team found someone that he felt was better at the position, and to that, Marty said that Jr. was an employee of the Reds and that if they told him he needed to move, he should move. Marty said it would be no different if Reds management came to him and told him that they wanted him to not be quite so "frank" with his comments on the air. He said he would have a choice at that point. Do what they say or find another job. I don't think management has a problem with Marty's style. When and if they ever do, we will know about it.

[flyer85]

these threads just seem to go on ... an on ...

[westofyou]

Heard Marty on Charlie Steiner's show on XM radio this afternoon.

Couldn't be Marty Brennamen, he's just a Play by Play guy.

Marty said it would be no different if Reds management came to him and told him that they wanted him to not be quite so "frank" with his comments on the air.

Unless of course it was Dick Wagner doing the asking.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC

Heard Marty on Charlie Steiner's show on XM radio this afternoon. He was giving his take on the Griffey situation and that he thought it was best for the team if Jr. was in right field on Opening Day. They talked about Jr. saying that he would move willingly if the team found someone that he felt was better at the position, and to that, Marty said that Jr. was an employee of the Reds and that if they told him he needed to move, he should move. Marty said it would be no different if Reds management came to him and told him that they wanted him to not be quite so "frank" with his comments on the air. He said he would have a choice at that point. Do what they say or find another job. I don't think management has a problem with Marty's style. When and if they ever do, we will know about it.

That's interesting Randy. I would find it the height of irony, although not uncharacteristic, if Marty were to tell the listeners that while he thought Dunn was a lazy oaf who struck out too much, management had asked him not to say so on the air.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

Somehow if the title of the thread was "Marty Brennaman slams Juan Castro...again", I don't think we'd be up to 189 responces. So yea, that he choose to rip on Dunn, who is feircely protected by most of RZ, most certinally plays a role in the issue.

I don't think you'd ever see such a threat title in Redszone because I think that on Marty's "Naughty or Nice" list, Castro is with Rich Aurilia on the "Nice" list. This topic comes up so often because Marty chooses to express his disdain of certain players in a manner that some of us find to be childish such that it detracts from our enjoyment of our favorite team. I can't help it if Dunn is Marty's favorite topic. It's not like people are baiting Marty into talking about Dunn. He just does it whenever he gets a chance. If you don't have a problem with Marty, who has played as much professional baseball as I have, criticising Dunn and saying he's "just about given up on him," then why should Marty be free of criticism of his own work?

As I've said before, it's one thing to "call it like it is." It's another to use your media access to grind your axes against certain players you don't like. I don't like it even when he may be right about the person he's talking about. It's just that in this case, when it comes down to home runs vs. hustle, he is so very wrong.

[RANDY IN INDY]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Couldn't be Marty Brennamen, he's just a Play by Play guy.

Unless of course it was Dick Wagner doing the asking.

And if I remember right, Dick Carlson was added to the booth with Marty and Joe. Neither was any too happy about the situation, but I believe that Marty and Wagner came to an understanding, Carlson was removed, and Marty held his tongue to a greater degree.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by RANDY IN CHAR NC

And if I remember right, Dick Carlson was added to the booth with Marty and Joe. Neither was any too happy about the situation, but I believe that Marty and Wagner came to an understanding, Carlson was removed, and Marty held his tongue to a greater degree.

Wagner not only was bad GM at the Major League level but he was the hatchet man in the organization, not much love can be gathered from that position over the years.

That said, he was a big part of the success of the Reds in the 70's and unbeknown to most he was also the Minor League Executive of the year way back in 1957. Odd duck he was, his recent death and the quiet surrounding it speaks loudly of the legacy he left. It's amazing how a few bad years can bring down a lifetime of work... but then again as Reds fan we've seen first hand how one bad decade can muss up the hard work the the 617 Inc. group put in during the 70's.

[registerthis]

My guess is, when the Reds begin regularly fielding competitive teams, and begin regularly challenging for playoff berths, what marty does--or does not--think about Adam Dunn won't be viewed with such grave consequence on here.

That being said, I might be able to offer a bit of perspective. Last year, the Nationals were bad. Not just bad, but great-googily-moogily awful. They had no rotation to speak of, the offense, for the most part, was tanking, the bullpen couldn't hold a lead...in short, there really wasn't much of a reasont oc ome watch the club, except for two things: one, it's baseball--and some people (like myself) are content watching a game in a vacuum, with no regards to any consequence the game might have beyond that immediate moment. Secondly, Alfonso Soriano. Soriano was one of the precious few bright spots on the Nats last year, and the Nationals exploited him for all they could. There were Soriano billboards up around DC, Soriano bobbleheads, Soriano banners and posters throughout RFK, Soriano on the Washington Post newspaper stands, etc. And, perhaps most noticeably, he was trated like a star by the team's broadcasters.

In spite of his much-publicized fielding mishaps, in spite of his occasional baserunning blunders, in spite of his (yes) strikeouts--the Nationals announcers realized what an exceptional year he was having, and how he himself was one of the few reasons for DC sports fans to come out to the ballpark. They marketed the heck out of Soriano, and made sure that every single person in DC--whether baseball fan or not--realized what an exceptional talent he was.

Now, I realize the comparisons between CIncinnati and DC aren't perfect, or that Soriano is a different player than Dunn, and the Reds are not the Nationals. But I think the greater point to take away from this is that every facet of the Nationals organization realized what a talent Soriano was and marketed him to the public as such. With the kind of year the Nats had, it would have been easy to begin jumping on Soriano as well. But that didn't happen.

Everyone knows that Dunn has his flaws, and I agree that at times he can be a maddeningly frustrating player. But he is also an exceptional talent, the type that does not grace the Cincinnati dugout that frequently. And it would be nice if the Reds--including Marty Brennamen--understood and appreciated that point.

[westofyou]

the Nationals announcers

Tom Patiorik is scrapping the absolute bottom of the barrel when looking at MLB's broadcasting offerings, memories of his constant use of the expression "Yeah" wakes me in the middle of the night at times.