Optionable players

[dfs]

lifted from shawn's blog who lifted it from the reds....

"It goes: pitchers Matt Belisle, Bill Bray, Jared Burton, Todd Coffey, Rheal Cormier, Jon Coutlangus, Phil Dumatrait, Aaron Harang, Bobby Livingston, Kyle Lohse, Gary Majewski, Calvin Medlock, Eric Milton, Elizardo Ramirez, Kirk Saarloos, Brad Salmon, Brian Shackelford, and Mike Stanton.

No catchers.

Infield: Edwin Encarnacion, Jerry Gil, Alex Gonzalez, Jeff Keppinger, Joey Votto.

Outfield: Jeff Conine, Chris Denorfia, Chris Dickerson, Adam Dunn, Junior Griffey, Josh Hamilton, Norris Hopper."

I'm a bit shocked to see Ramirez on there. When he was sent down last year, did they manage to retroactivly claim is was injury rehab? The must have because that would have been his third season splitting time between the majors and minors. I was also fairly confident that Dumatrait has been on the 40 man roster in the minors for three years, but I've either been mistaken or some of that time must be considered injury rehab.

Of course the rule v guys are on there, but the reds can't send them down without either sending them back or offereing some other compensation.

It seems like Shackleford has been up and down forever, but it really has only been the last two years.

Anyway...it's an intersting list to start spring training with. The 25 man roster is far less jammed than I thought it was going to be.

[BRM]

Is this supposed to be a list of players with minor league options left? If so, it can't be correct. Guys like Conine, Griffey, Milton, Stanton, etc... can't be sent down. At least not without clearing waivers first.

[Tom Servo]

I thought Gil and Keppinger were acquired from the D'Backs and Royals respectively because they were out of options?

[redsmetz]

I don't know about the rules for posting ESPN stuff, so here's a link to a Rob Neyer article on transactions:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html

[BRM]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

I thought Gil and Keppinger were acquired from the D'Backs and Royals respectively because they were out of options?

The Reds website has an article from when Gil was acquired and it says he is most definitely out of options. I thought Keppinger was in the same boat but I don't remember for sure.

[MrCinatit]

Harang has options? Maybe another year in AAA will teach him some humility.



In Bizzaro World. Here, in the real world, on the other hand...no.

[JaxRed]

Originally Posted by BRM

Is this supposed to be a list of players with minor league options left? If so, it can't be correct. Guys like Conine, Griffey, Milton, Stanton, etc... can't be sent down. At least not without clearing waivers first.

Actually that's incorrect. Let's assume Griffey has never been sent to minors after he got send to majors. (which is probably the case).

He still has 3 option years available. But he can't be optioned because major leaguers with more than 5 years of service can refuse the optional assignment.

But if they accept, they are referred to as a voluntary option. It's happened at least once since I've been tracking this stuff.

[BRM]

Originally Posted by JaxRed

Actually that's incorrect. Let's assume Griffey has never been sent to minors after he got send to majors. (which is probably the case).

He still has 3 option years available. But he can't be optioned because major leaguers with more than 5 years of service can refuse the optional assignment.

But if they accept, they are referred to as a voluntary option. It's happened at least once since I've been tracking this stuff.

Thanks for clearing that up. So, I'd say they realistically can't be optioned. So the point I was attempting to make is still valid. None of those guys will accept a demotion to AAA.

[dfs]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

I don't know about the rules for posting ESPN stuff, so here's a link to a Rob Neyer article on transactions:

http://espn.go.com/mlb/s/transanctionsprimer.html

Thanks. After reading that I still don't see how the lizard can possibly still have options. He became a proffessional in 00. He's been on somebodies 40 man roster since 04. He spent part of 04, 05 and 06 in the majors and part of each of those three years in the minors. That should be his three option years. Somehow they must have been able to retroactively call that stint in Louisville injury rehab.

Not that I don't trust Shawn, but his list is indeed on the reds site in yesterday's spring training notebook. Keppinger is on there.

[jmcclain19]

Originally Posted by dfs

Thanks. After reading that I still don't see how the lizard can possibly still have options. He became a proffessional in 00. He's been on somebodies 40 man roster since 04. He spent part of 04, 05 and 06 in the majors and part of each of those three years in the minors. That should be his three option years. Somehow they must have been able to retroactively call that stint in Louisville injury rehab.

Not that I don't trust Shawn, but his list is indeed on the reds site in yesterday's spring training notebook. Keppinger is on there.

There is no way Elizardo has options left. Or Belisle.

That list is mostly bogus. The five year veteran rule (players with 5 years experience can't be assigned to the minors without their consent) also crosses out just about every veteran on that list (Dunn, Junior, Stanton, Gonzalez, etc).

[mth123]

I agree with the others that this list is not credible. So, does anyone actually have a "list" showing player's names and options left? It seems that lifting names out of an article is dubious because its most likely the misguided compilation of writer. I'm sure that a list has to exist, but I can't find one.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by jmcclain19

There is no way Elizardo has options left. Or Belisle.

That list is mostly bogus. The five year veteran rule (players with 5 years experience can't be assigned to the minors without their consent) also crosses out just about every veteran on that list (Dunn, Junior, Stanton, Gonzalez, etc).

I can't speak to the credibility of the list, nor whether Ramirez or Belisle have options, but I know I've seen lists previously that had veterans on them. They may have options left (such as the case of Griffey), but they're effectively unable to use them given the service time of the player and the fact that they would have to clear waivers (although many players clear waivers mid-season, even vets, so that might not be an issue). The truth seems to be that such an option is essentially unavailable given the circumstances.

For the purpose of actually making a real roster move, the list is much shorter to be sure.

[JaxRed]

The players like Griffey if they accepted an voluntary optional assignment, do not have to pass waivers.

That said, they are not going anywhere....

[dfs]

Originally Posted by jmcclain19

There is no way Elizardo has options left. Or Belisle.

That list is mostly bogus. The five year veteran rule (players with 5 years experience can't be assigned to the minors without their consent) also crosses out just about every veteran on that list (Dunn, Junior, Stanton, Gonzalez, etc).

The list is from the reds spring training notes. It's a list of guys with options. Not guys they can send down. So, I'm not too worried about the old guys that aren't going to go.

I can see how Belisle could have options left. He only has 3 years in the majors 03,05,06. He didn't spend any time in the minors in 05 and his time last year was injury re-hab. So his two burned option years would have been 03 and 04. It surprises me, but I can see it.

The one I can't see is the Lizard.

[KySteveH]

Originally Posted by JaxRed

The players like Griffey if they accepted an voluntary optional assignment, do not have to pass waivers.

According to the latest CBA, players with 3 years service time must pass through waivers in order to be optioned.

As for Elizardo, he doesn't qualify for a fourth option year (only players who have 0 days MLS get the 4th option year). I can't see where he would have options left.