Danny Graves Sighting in Arizona

[jmcclain19]

So Skipped out of work this afternoon, and headed out to Surprise to catch the Royals & Rockies in action.

During the 7th inning stretch I got and stretched, and to my surprise they announce that "Danny Graves" is coming out from the pen.

Oh man Danny. He does not look in shape at all. The Gun said he was mid 80's at the most on his fastball, and Joey Gathright of all people took him oppo deep in the LF corner for a stand up double. Got smacked around a little bit - and he proved he could use some more PFP as he couldn't handle a simple toss from the 1st baseman that allowed a run to score.

In other points - Zack Greinke looked absolutely filthy today - up as high as 93mph with his heat, and still dropping those high 60's curves in there for strikes. 6ks in 4IP against the Rockies B squad. I don't think the hitters really would have mattered - 3 of those Ks were looking.

[KronoRed]

That's sad for poor Danny

[savafan]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

That's sad for poor Danny

What's really sad is that Danny Graves is the career saves leader for the Cincinnati Reds...

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by jmcclain19

In other points - Zack Greinke looked absolutely filthy today - up as high as 93mph with his heat, and still dropping those high 60's curves in there for strikes. 6ks in 4IP against the Rockies B squad. I don't think the hitters really would have mattered - 3 of those Ks were looking.

I am really glad to hear about him. Ive talked with Zacks dad several times and he is a real nice guy, and I have always been a fans of Zacks. I really hope he has his head right and that he is dealing with his personal issues well. He has really good stuff and I hope he can get back in the majors and show what he did in his rookie year.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by savafan

What's really sad is that Danny Graves is the career saves leader for the Cincinnati Reds...

Why's that sad? When Danny Graves was on, he was a really good pitcher. I'm nut sure I understand the dig on this one? Yes, he went quickly, but when he was racking up those saves, he was getting the job done.

[zombie-a-go-go]

I'm fairly certain the sad part is that the Reds broke him when they attempted to turn him into a starter. Not every closer is Derek Lowe.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by zombie-a-go-go

I'm fairly certain the sad part is that the Reds broke him when they attempted to turn him into a starter. Not every closer is Derek Lowe.

I'm not sure that's what the earlier poster meant, but I agree that Graves very likely was ruined by the Reds mishandling him.

[Strikes Out Looking]

I think Danny Graves ruined Danny Graves. He actually posted ok numbers starting--look at them against Milton's. Now look at Danny Graves. He's out of shape and has been for a few years. I wouldn't blame the Reds for this one.

[Joseph]

Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking

I think Danny Graves ruined Danny Graves. He actually posted ok numbers starting--look at them against Milton's. Now look at Danny Graves. He's out of shape and has been for a few years. I wouldn't blame the Reds for this one.

Thats my take, complacency.

[Matt700wlw]

Originally Posted by savafan

What's really sad is that Danny Graves is the career saves leader for the Cincinnati Reds...

He was good then.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking

I think Danny Graves ruined Danny Graves. He actually posted ok numbers starting--look at them against Milton's. Now look at Danny Graves. He's out of shape and has been for a few years. I wouldn't blame the Reds for this one.

True. He was moved from the bullpen to the rotation in the middle of the season for a reason: He was getting lit up in the bullpen.

I've said this before but I think it bears repeating. I usually don't notice whether a player has put on a lot of weight or not. People at RedsZone were saying how fat he was and I really thought it was an exaggeration until I went to the Reds HOF & Museum. On the first floor they have a very large picture of Graves as the all-time Reds saves leader. It had to be from early in his career cause I noticed that he was actually much thinner than he was at the time. Now when I notice something like that, you know it's significant.

[Sea Ray]

All you have to do is look at a picture of Danny Graves, then and now and see why he isn't the pitcher he once was. As Chip correctly pointed out, he was moved to the roation as an attempt to salvage his career. Unless Bob Boone can be blamed for stuffing twinkies into Danny Graves, you can't blame the Reds for this guy's downfall.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

I'm not sure that's what the earlier poster meant, but I agree that Graves very likely was ruined by the Reds mishandling him.

Being a short RH and getting old ruined Graves. Darwinism doesn't like short pitchers, especially RH ones.

[Team Clark]

Originally Posted by Chip R

True. He was moved from the bullpen to the rotation in the middle of the season for a reason: He was getting lit up in the bullpen.

I've said this before but I think it bears repeating. I usually don't notice whether a player has put on a lot of weight or not. People at RedsZone were saying how fat he was and I really thought it was an exaggeration until I went to the Reds HOF & Museum. On the first floor they have a very large picture of Graves as the all-time Reds saves leader. It had to be from early in his career cause I noticed that he was actually much thinner than he was at the time. Now when I notice something like that, you know it's significant.

I heard you mention one other time that he was getting lit up in the pen. As I went back and looked at the stats and the box scores there was only about one week where he was getting hit before being moved into the rotation. As I looked back at the articles in the newspaper from that season the move to the rotation had been discussed as early as ST. I'm not seeing how getting lit for one week translates into the move to the rotation.

On that note, I'm not sure what the Reds would be thinking moving a guy who's getting hit hard for a week and moving him into a starting role.

[Sea Ray]

They could see he was getting hit pretty good. The opponents were getting some good cuts on him. The year he was cut by the Reds the stats will show that he saved a lot of games but us fans could see that he was getting lit up. It wasn't until the St Louis debacle that it finally came to a head.

An astute talent evaluator addresses these problems before the stats show it.

As to whether it was a good chance to take, I don't know. There was no good option but they noticed that the zip on his fastball was gone and that sinkerball pitchers often do better as they tire. He had 3 or 4 pitches so let him start. As it turned out he couldn't even learn a windup so in hindsight it never had a chance but I don't think there's anything that would have saved him.