Bailey, Votto among today's cuts

[Danny Serafini]

From Trent's blog:

Don't have all the details yet, but...

Bailey, Votto, Meadows, Gosling among the cuts. Conway, Hannigan also. Will get more when i get em

[Red Leader]

I would have liked to see Votto get a couple more PA's this spring, but in my heart, I knew he wasn't going to make the team out of spring training.

Jeff Conine just has too young of a body to allow that to happen.

[Tom Servo]

Also from Trent:

UPDATE: OK. Ligtenberg and Meadows given outright release so they can try to hook on somewhere else. Neither wanted to go to AAA.

Bailey, Gosling, Conway, Hannigan reassigned to minor league camp.

Votto optioned to Class AAA Louisville

[rotnoid]

Originally Posted by Red Leader

I would have liked to see Votto get a couple more PA's this spring, but in my heart, I knew he wasn't going to make the team out of spring training.

Jeff Conine just has too young of a body to allow that to happen.

Between Conine and Hatte, we're talking about around 400 years of experience. Baseball Guy loves that stuff. The young whipper snappers didn't have a chance with Narron around. Unless, of course, they play the game the right way.

[Always Red]

wow, the Ligtenberg experiment ended rather quickly. He pitched pretty well, actually. I'm guessing Hermanson is their guy, although I'd rather see them keep Burton from going back to the A's.

[Roy Tucker]

I'm a little relieved Homer is getting sent down.

I was afraid he was going to experience some success and get rushed into the Reds' rotation. I'd rather see him brought up later in the season, eased into some long relief, and generally not as rushed.

I remember going to a mostly forgettable Reds Astros game in 2001. The Reds got off to an early lead and I thought they were going to win handily. The Astros brought in some kid just up from the minors who shut the Reds down utterly and completely in some middle relief. The Astros scored some runs and their bullpen then came in and wrapped up an Astros victory.

I remember whining and moaning in a RZ game report saying how pathetic the Reds were to let some kid by the name of Roy Oswalt to shut them down so badly whoever the heck he was.

[rotnoid]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

I'm a little relieved Homer is getting sent down.

I was afraid he was going to experience some success and get rushed into the Reds' rotation. I'd rather see him brought up later in the season, eased into some long relief, and generally not as rushed.

I remember going to a mostly forgettable Reds Astros game in 2001. The Reds got off to an early lead and I thought they were going to win handily. The Astros brought in some kid just up from the minors who shut the Reds down utterly and completely in some middle relief. The Astros scored some runs and their bullpen then came in and wrapped up an Astros victory.

I remember whining and moaning in a RZ game report saying how pathetic the Reds were to let some kid by the name of Roy Oswalt to shut them down so badly whoever the heck he was.

I agree with you except for the long relief part. Relieving and starting are two different animals. The preparation and the mindset are completely different. If Homer spends a few months at Louisville facing AAA hitters (which should be markedly better than those he saw in the Southern League) getting ready to be an MLB starter, I don't see the sense in sticking him in the pen. Especially since there is bound to be a rotation spot open this summer due to injury or ineffectiveness. To spend the time grooming him to be a starter and then stick him in the pen just so he can get to the big club seems like a waste of the past two years to me.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by rotnoid

I agree with you except for the long relief part. Relieving and starting are two different animals. The preparation and the mindset are completely different. If Homer spends a few months at Louisville facing AAA hitters (which should be markedly better than those he saw in the Southern League) getting ready to be an MLB starter, I don't see the sense in sticking him in the pen. Especially since there is bound to be a rotation spot open this summer due to injury or ineffectiveness. To spend the time grooming him to be a starter and then stick him in the pen just so he can get to the big club seems like a waste of the past two years to me.

Earl Weaver and Sparky would disagree.

[rotnoid]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Earl Weaver and Sparky would disagree.

Yeah, but what did they ever do?

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Earl Weaver and Sparky would disagree.

So would Tony Larussa and Dave Duncan.

And me, FWIW. I think it's important to let young pitchers gain experience in low-pressure situations. Let them learn how to get major league hitters out when the game isn't on the line. Then ease them into situations that are more meaningful.

[Red Leader]

I used to be in the camp where I was in favor of bringing up a big time prospect like Bailey to pitch in a middle relief role to get his feet wet. These days, though, I think the best thing for Bailey would be if they brought him up, stuck him in the rotation and told him that he was going to be there for a long, long time. Even if they keep him on a strict pitch count in every start, I think the experience of starting the game is invaluable to him. Keep that same mindset. Bailey, from what I've heard from him this spring, knows he's going to struggle at times, and he's ok with that. He's going to use that experience to get better. He's not crushed by pitching poorly, and that's important. Most pitchers can't handle that and it ends up breaking them. Bailey has a good head on his shoulders and I think if you start him in the rotation, it does him better than starting him intially in the bullpen. That's one more thing that I think puts Bailey ahead of other prospects. Everybody's different, but I think Bailey should start in the rotation and stay there.

[rotnoid]

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

So would Tony Larussa and Dave Duncan.

And me, FWIW. I think it's important to let young pitchers gain experience in low-pressure situations. Let them learn how to get major league hitters out when the game isn't on the line. Then ease them into situations that are more meaningful.

If that's the plan, why not leave him with the big club now? His stuff is superior to anyone currently in the pen.

[Roy Tucker]

Just my opinion, but I'd like to see Homer make his first appearance in relief in a blow-out game on the road like the Astros did with Oswalt.

Not so much to groom him as a reliever, but just to get that first MLB appearance out of the way without an undue amount of pressure. Us Reds fans are treating Bailey as the Second Coming and I'm afraid if he made a home start, the pressure to succeed would be enormous and the impact of a failure disproportionately too much. Let him relieve in 3-4 games while ratcheting up the importance of the appearance and then let him have a start. Ease the boy in.

I looked it up and that 2001 season with Oswalt he went 14-3 with 20 starts in 28 games. That's a nice blend and I'd be very happy with that.

[cincy09]

I remember whining and moaning in a RZ game report saying how pathetic the Reds were to let some kid by the name of Roy Oswalt to shut them down so badly whoever the heck he was.

And he has owned us every time since.

[rotnoid]

I agree that some fans have been treating him as the Second Coming, but they're only following the lead of the front office. They way Krivsky is handling Bailey, you'd think he was given inside info from the Pope that Homer's going to turn out to be Walter Johnson, but only if you follow these very specific instructions.

I don't disagree that experience is what he needs, but I also don't think he needs the low pressure situation. He seems very comfortable in whatever role he's been in. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy to implode under pressure.