Marty's quote on Josh Hamilton today 3/16/07

[George Foster]

Marty after a play by Josh in center field: " There is no question about it. Josh Hamilton is by far the best defensive fielder on this team right now. He covers the most ground and has a rocket for an arm. There is no debate about it at this point."

Wow....

[RedsManRick]

Stick Denorfia in left and I guess the comparison is made for you :-P

I don't have a horse in the race. I happy to see Hamilton playing so well. Just funny how the best defensive AAA OF gets shoved to LF for wonderboy.

[WVRedsFan]

My take on this whole thing is this (and this and maybe a buck will get you a good cup of coffee if you don't go to Starbucks). For too long I've hared about this superstar Chris Denorfia. You know, the kid who is nearing his third decade without being in the majors. And I keep hearing wonderful things about this guy named Ryan Freel, who similarly didn't get to the majors until an older age. Both get props for hustle, but neither shines in all aspects of the game which is the measureing stick for outfielders, like it or not.

Enter Josh Hamilton, who seems to be reaching near his potential with a new outlook on life. I haven't seen Hamilton play except on a couple of TV games this spring, but the kid has it all. He hustles, runs well, fields so well that it amazes me and playes the game intelligently (at least when I've seen him play). He's a natural. He has power, speed, and a newly acquired attitude. Put Denorfia and Freel on any other major league club and Freel would be a utilkty man and Denorfia would probably not make the team, or if he did would be an afterthought. Let performance decide who plays, regardless of prejudices and favoritism. If he screws up, bench him or send him down, but don't sluff off his talent because of adoration of Freel and Denorfia.

[toledodan]

Originally Posted by WVRedsFan

My take on this whole thing is this (and this and maybe a buck will get you a good cup of coffee if you don't go to Starbucks). For too long I've hared about this superstar Chris Denorfia. You know, the kid who is nearing his third decade without being in the majors. And I keep hearing wonderful things about this guy named Ryan Freel, who similarly didn't get to the majors until an older age. Both get props for hustle, but neither shines in all aspects of the game which is the measureing stick for outfielders, like it or not.

Enter Josh Hamilton, who seems to be reaching near his potential with a new outlook on life. I haven't seen Hamilton play except on a couple of TV games this spring, but the kid has it all. He hustles, runs well, fields so well that it amazes me and playes the game intelligently (at least when I've seen him play). He's a natural. He has power, speed, and a newly acquired attitude. Put Denorfia and Freel on any other major league club and Freel would be a utilkty man and Denorfia would probably not make the team, or if he did would be an afterthought. Let performance decide who plays, regardless of prejudices and favoritism. If he screws up, bench him or send him down, but don't sluff off his talent because of adoration of Freel and Denorfia.

great post. i like deno but lets face it he didn't exactly tare the cover off the ball when he got his chance last season. maybe deno is more of a brandon larson type that is more of a AAAA status. too good for the minors not quite up to par in the majors. deno did help himself saturday with a solid game but hasn't proved he deserves a spot over hamilton yet.

[MrCinatit]

Excellent post, WV.
I do like Freel and Deno a lot...I like their spark and I like their hustle.
However, not only does Hamilton seem to have the spark and the hustle, he seems to have the talent, as well - a many times rare combination.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by MrCinatit

Excellent post, WV.
I do like Freel and Deno a lot...I like their spark and I like their hustle.
However, not only does Hamilton seem to have the spark and the hustle, he seems to have the talent, as well - a many times rare combination.

Have the talent - that's the key. He tried to throw it away with his destructive behavior, but most agree that he is the most talented of those mentioned above. The key, or question, is - "Will it finally shine forth?"

Lets find out. It's a low risk investment. The problem is not with Hamilton and/or Deno. The problem is with Jr in CF, who is keeping us from really finding out if these two guys have what it takes. They, IMHO, are not going to get the consistent A/Bs for us to find out because Narron is gonna be shuffling things between the three (incuding Freel).

And I don't advocate trading any of them at this stage, unless it's a deal that can't be refused.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by GAC

Lets find out. It's a low risk investment.

Here's an important distinction. Picking up Hamilton was a relatively low risk investment. Penciling him in for 400 at bats in centerfield is a high risk behavior.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by toledodan

great post. i like deno but lets face it he didn't exactly tare the cover off the ball when he got his chance last season. maybe deno is more of a brandon larson type that is more of a AAAA status. too good for the minors not quite up to par in the majors. deno did help himself saturday with a solid game but hasn't proved he deserves a spot over hamilton yet.

His first "chance" was about 25 ABs. Check out what he did in September and Oct. .352/.407/.463. In a playoff race. Look at what some of the other stars did down the stretch:

Dunn: .157/.333/.265
Hatteberg: .206/.349/.235
Freel: .208/.311/.302
Phillips: .149/.204/.253

He should have a roster spot locked up in 2007, no questions asked. It's a joke that he doesn't, just because he has options. To even mention that Crosby could be kept over him shows that management isn't taking 2007 seriously.

And Hamilton has been a great story so far...but I'm not fully buying until the real games start. If he's smoking the ball through May, then I'll get on line.

And WV, if performance should matter for the roster decisions, then Deno should be locked in. How wouldn't he make it? Look at his numbers from last year when playing semi-consistently. You can have ST, I'll have regular season performance.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by jojo

Here's an important distinction. Picking up Hamilton was a relatively low risk investment. Penciling him in for 400 at bats in centerfield is a high risk behavior.

As stated earlier. Pencil him in until he stops hitting and then leave him in a little longer to see if he rebounds. If he does, the offense actually has a chance to be average in 2007. If he falls flat, move him to the 25th man role and give Deno a shot. I like Deno, but even if he does well, he can't elevate the offense. Hamilton has that potential.

A team with Deno/Freel in CF and playing well still doesn't look to have enough offense with a hole at SS, uncertainty at C, OBP questions at 2B and an absolute lack of slugging at 1B. A real plus player in CF can make-up for some of that. Its a real longshot right now, but with Votto sent to AAA to "work on his defense" its the only shot left.

Add in a team with 3 number 5 starters in the rotation and a bullpen that looks horrible, and this is a year to try some stuff out IMO.

[Joseph]

Originally Posted by mth123

Add in a team with 3 number 5 starters in the rotation and a bullpen that looks horrible, and this is a year to try some stuff out IMO.

Which I think many here agree with, which just furthers the point that Crosby and some of these old relievers have no spot on this team if they management [JN and WK] are thinking clearly.

If we're simply rolling dice on the year, let's roll them with youth. Nothing would be worse than a bunch of old guys coming in and doing half the job that the youngsters could have for 3 times the pay.

[redsfan4445]

Originally Posted by WVRedsFan

My take on this whole thing is this (and this and maybe a buck will get you a good cup of coffee if you don't go to Starbucks). For too long I've hared about this superstar Chris Denorfia. You know, the kid who is nearing his third decade without being in the majors. And I keep hearing wonderful things about this guy named Ryan Freel, who similarly didn't get to the majors until an older age. Both get props for hustle, but neither shines in all aspects of the game which is the measureing stick for outfielders, like it or not.

Enter Josh Hamilton, who seems to be reaching near his potential with a new outlook on life. I haven't seen Hamilton play except on a couple of TV games this spring, but the kid has it all. He hustles, runs well, fields so well that it amazes me and playes the game intelligently (at least when I've seen him play). He's a natural. He has power, speed, and a newly acquired attitude. Put Denorfia and Freel on any other major league club and Freel would be a utilkty man and Denorfia would probably not make the team, or if he did would be an afterthought. Let performance decide who plays, regardless of prejudices and favoritism. If he screws up, bench him or send him down, but don't sluff off his talent because of adoration of Freel and Denorfia.

Excelnt post!!.. i am rooting for Hamilton and of late i think its made Deno start steping it up to stay in the bigs. we shall see what unfolds, but if Ryan Freel has a bad hamy, Deno stays too

[Tony Cloninger]

I know games in Sept. are way more important than spring training games.....but have you looked at the pitchers Denorfia went up against in Sept.? The 2 games that he really looked good in were against FLA (Willis and Sanchez) were he went 4 for 4 with 2 doubles....vs Willis and 2 for 4 vs Sanchez and some relievers. After that he went 4 for 16 to finish out the year against Nolasco (FLA), Duke (PITT), McLeary (PITT) and Youman (PITT). All of these starters were in there at least 6-7 innings.

So while I understand any doubts you have over Hamilton.....to think that Denorfia would or should be a lock based on 2 good games in Sept. is not exactly correct.

[Marc D]

At this point make the OF Dunn, Hamilton, JR. Use Freel as the IF/OF sub and Deno is the 4th OF. If Hamilton can't take it north with him he goes to the 4th OF and Deno gets his shot. JR spends what non-DL time he has in him this year in RF and only RF.

JR's DL time and the Reds win % are the 2 unknowns that can make this whole delima real easy in a short amount of time. If/when JR goes down you need have a clear cut OF with Freel as the 4th. If we tank as a team you run Hamilton out there come hell or high water, only stop if it might be affecting his confidence.

Ultimately I don't think this years success/failure is going to be laid at the feet of the Hamilton experiment. He hasn't given you any reason to not let him have the shot, let him have it and lets see what we've got. As always, the Narron effect on the seemingly simple equation cannot be accounted for and is why I have full confidence this situation will be FUBAR'd.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger

I know games in Sept. are way more important than spring training games.....but have you looked at the pitchers Denorfia went up against in Sept.? The 2 games that he really looked good in were against FLA (Willis and Sanchez) were he went 4 for 4 with 2 doubles....vs Willis and 2 for 4 vs Sanchez and some relievers. After that he went 4 for 16 to finish out the year against Nolasco (FLA), Duke (PITT), McLeary (PITT) and Youman (PITT). All of these starters were in there at least 6-7 innings.

So while I understand any doubts you have over Hamilton.....to think that Denorfia would or should be a lock based on 2 good games in Sept. is not exactly correct.

He went 2-3 against the Padres. 1-3 off of Oswalt and the Astros. 2-4 later in the month with a HR against the Astros. 2-4 later in the month against the Cubs. To say he had 2 good games in September is also not exactly correct. your example provided 20 at bats....but ignored the other 34 in the month.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger

I know games in Sept. are way more important than spring training games.....but have you looked at the pitchers Denorfia went up against in Sept.? The 2 games that he really looked good in were against FLA (Willis and Sanchez) were he went 4 for 4 with 2 doubles....vs Willis and 2 for 4 vs Sanchez and some relievers. After that he went 4 for 16 to finish out the year against Nolasco (FLA), Duke (PITT), McLeary (PITT) and Youman (PITT). All of these starters were in there at least 6-7 innings.

So while I understand any doubts you have over Hamilton.....to think that Denorfia would or should be a lock based on 2 good games in Sept. is not exactly correct.

Denorfia had 13 games where he had 3 or more plate appearances in Sept/Oct and had 8 games where he got on base 2 or more times. Not bad, huh?

I think Hamilton has potential, but to expect someone who has spent years out of the game and has something like 100 ABs over single A to really contribute this year is reaching a little bit. If he is hitting well at the end of May, then he will have absolutely proved me wrong. But his spot on the roster is pretty much guaranteed, no matter what. I'd like to see what is said if he is hitting .195 in June.

Deno has never been given a chance. After the trade in July, WK was all over the papers saying that Deno's earned Kearns' spot. He started 5 out of the next 6 games and then was banished.

He was then given a shot in September and produced. Now he has to fight for a roster spot against scrubs like Crosby and Conine. Give me a break.