Mass Shooting at Va Tech. 33 Dead, 15 Injured [reportedly]

[paintmered]

Originally Posted by George Foster

Very good post!

Agreed.

I just meant that it is unfortunate because since the shooter is dead, the questions we ask towards the authorities are now different since we can't seek answers from him.

So instead of "How can this be prevented in the future?", the question has become, "What did local authorities fail to do that allowed this to happen?" Regardless, both need to be answered. But in everyone's heightened emotional state, we want the answer to the second question to lead us to the answer of the first. I think that's the incorrect order, and one that deflects blame from the shooter to Virginia Tech.

Honestly, if the shooter were still alive, I don't think we have this discussion.

[TeamDunn]

I am still disturbed by what I watched this evening. I wanted to see it, I wanted to find a reason why he did this. I have no sympathy for what he did and am not defending him in the least...but it is sad that his mental illness slipped through so many cracks.

I don't know what airing it will do...I hope it does not cause any copycats. It is just scary.

His words, his looks, they turned my blood cold on the spot.

Originally Posted by George Foster

Hey, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but how do you feel about NBC/MSNBC airing the ramblings of a mad man? I thought it was one of the most irresponsible things ever aired on TV.

There is a reason why you never see someone run out on the playing field of a baseball game or football game. The networks have made a decision not to show them running around because they (the networks) know that is what the idiot wants....to get on TV and they won't give him the satisfaction. This has lead to very few cases of this happening a year.

What is stoping another mad man from doing the same thing as what happened on Monday at Virgina Tech? He knows now he will get his taped aired on the nightly news, and played on youtube. Irresponsible does not even describe it. Just my opinion.

[FoReel]

Originally Posted by George Foster

Hey, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but how do you feel about NBC/MSNBC airing the ramblings of a mad man? I thought it was one of the most irresponsible things ever aired on TV.

There is a reason why you never see someone run out on the playing field of a baseball game or football game. The networks have made a decision not to show them running around because they (the networks) know that is what the idiot wants....to get on TV and they won't give him the satisfaction. This has lead to very few cases of this happening a year.

What is stoping another mad man from doing the same thing as what happened on Monday at Virgina Tech? He knows now he will get his taped aired on the nightly news, and played on youtube. Irresponsible does not even describe it. Just my opinion.

Is it irresponsible or just plain out greed?

[RFS62]

Originally Posted by FoReel

Is it irresponsible or just plain out greed?

Greed. The same thing that got us 24/7 coverage of the search for Anna Nichole's babys father.

[TeamCasey]

nm

[TeamCasey]

Originally Posted by GAC

Taking away guns from law abiding citizens is not gonna stop criminals or deranged people from getting them. Many years ago, and I know it's just as true today, I knew several "acquaintences" that made their living solely from dealing in selling guns and armament illegally. I've been in some houses where it would amaze you what was there and readily available. If they didn't have what you want, then they could get it.

If a person, like this nutcase, wanted a gun, then he could easily get one without having to walk down to the local gun shop and do so legally.

Gun control does not make it any harder to acquire guns if one is really intent on doing something like this.

And I say that as one who has never owned a gun, and never will.

We already have gun control legislation now. Is it working?

I'm not permitted to respond to this "pseudo-related" elephant in the room.

We'll have to duke it out over a cold beverage this weekend.

[TeamCasey]

Originally Posted by George Foster

Hey, I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but how do you feel about NBC/MSNBC airing the ramblings of a mad man? I thought it was one of the most irresponsible things ever aired on TV.

There is a reason why you never see someone run out on the playing field of a baseball game or football game. The networks have made a decision not to show them running around because they (the networks) know that is what the idiot wants....to get on TV and they won't give him the satisfaction. This has lead to very few cases of this happening a year.

What is stoping another mad man from doing the same thing as what happened on Monday at Virgina Tech? He knows now he will get his taped aired on the nightly news, and played on youtube. Irresponsible does not even describe it. Just my opinion.

I understand what you're saying but I also want to try to make sense of it all. I do want to read/see it. It's not because of some perverse voyeurism. These things happen and you sit back and ask why a thousand times.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by pedro

People like to say that gun control won't help but unless you are already a connected criminal, which this kid was not, where are you going to go to get a black market gun? Honestly, I wouldn't have the first clue as to where to obtain black market guns & ammo. I'm sure it isn't hard for people who are already criminals and know other criminals but I just have a hard time believing it's that easy to get a gun if you don't already know someone. It's not like scoring beer in high school where you'd just stand outside the 7-11.

It's not hard for those who are not criminals either pedro. Believe me. If you really want to buy a gun "under the table" or via the black market, you can do it very easily. You might (unknowingly) have a friend of a friend who could help you get a gun because he might know someone or a contact. They are just not gonna advertise it until someone possibly inquires. One can go to a nightclub, bar, or various other public venues, and discreetly put the word out in a casual conversation that you're looking to obtain a gun, and sooner or later you will score.

It is no different if someone wanted to score some pot or other types of drugs. You don't necessarily have to hang out with or associate with those that sell it. You discreetly get the word out and you will be approached to make that one time buy.

I don't associate or hang around with any of the above types. But I know guys at work that do and/or are involved in such activities. If I wanted it bad enough I could approach them, no questions asked, and get what I needed.

Prohibition didn't work with alcohol, and it won't work with guns either. Just make those within the black market, who are already making handsome profits, even more profitable. And they are not making it simply off of other criminals.

What we need in this country is a better centralized (computerized) background checking system, and possibly some tougher regulations as to who can/can't buy a gun.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by paintmered

Blacksburg isn't much bigger than Bellfontaine.

Hey! We have a pretty nice size city police force here in Bellefontaine. As well as the local county Sheriff and State Highway Patrol branch.

I understand where you're coming from paint. All I am saying is that this college administration should have erred on the side of caution knowing very little that they did, and the fact that two people were shot dead. Did they even think of taking what campus police they had, regardless of what the numbers were - they just had a double murder - and do the best they could to set up a guard/surveillance of a few of the widely used buildings/classrooms entrances, just as a precaution? No they didn't. When did they even contact any outside enforcement agencies? Just having a few extra armed police walking a beat around the place, whether it was Sheriff Deputies and/or State Troopers, may have prevented this. until they had more facts on this? If they could have only gotten 10 law enforcement The closest city is Roanoke, nearly an hour drive away through the mountains.

How well would your town be able to respond to such a situation?

Knowing Bellefontaine, as well as numerous city police officers and sheriff deputies, there would have been a coordinated/joint effort by both, as well as some state troopers there, if something like this had happened at a school around here. The three agencies work/communicate very well together.

[rdiersin]

Originally Posted by paintmered

Agreed.

I just meant that it is unfortunate because since the shooter is dead, the questions we ask towards the authorities are now different since we can't seek answers from him.

So instead of "How can this be prevented in the future?", the question has become, "What did local authorities fail to do that allowed this to happen?" Regardless, both need to be answered. But in everyone's heightened emotional state, we want the answer to the second question to lead us to the answer of the first. I think that's the incorrect order, and one that deflects blame from the shooter to Virginia Tech.

Honestly, if the shooter were still alive, I don't think we have this discussion.

The other part of it is, even if the university locks the buildings on the campus, there's still a possibility this would have been a tragic event, maybe less so, but still possible. How many students check their email before going to class? I don't remember checking mine that often before my first morning classes. The students I see to this day don't seem as if they do either. They get up, sometimes shower, go to class. Virginia Tech could have done phone messages to dorm students I guess, but it being a large school, one can reasonably guess that they have a large section of students living off campus. This message probably wouldn't reach them. All in all, I would guess that there would still be plenty of people around campus, giving Cho targets. Just in a different way.

[Razor Shines]

I'm not real excited about them showing this kid's tapes. I think they should be talking more about Librescu, who saved the lives of all the students in his class room. I know he's been mentioned in this thread, I just think that he should get more air time than this murderer.

I was listening to a radio program this morning and a woman said that she told her sons that she would be very disapointed in them if they had jumped out the window, while Librescu blocked the door. She said that she told her sons that if they had been there she would have wanted them to help the him block the door or save him. And surprisingly a lot of the callers agreed with her, saying that the men in the class room should not have run, while Librescu died. I was just wondering what the thought on the board was on this issue.

Personally I don't fault any one of those kids for getting out. Librescu ordered them to get out. Most likely any of them that stayed would have also died, when they didn't have to. It's not heroic to needlessly die. What Librescu did was heroic, he probably knew that he was going to die. To me those kids that got out are not cowards, but they have been charged to lead a good life and earn his sacrafice.

Some people believe that if 4 or 5 guys had rushed the killer, they could have stopped him. But it's hard to say what you would do in that situation. The kid had semi-auto weapons, charging him unarmed may not have done anything but give him easier shots. The host of the show said that in a situation like that you really can't fault anyone's actions except the killer's. And I agree.

[MrCinatit]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Some people believe that if 4 or 5 guys had rushed the killer, they could have stopped him. But it's hard to say what you would do in that situation. The kid had semi-auto weapons, charging him unarmed may not have done anything but give him easier shots. The host of the show said that in a situation like that you really can't fault anyone's actions except the killer's. And I agree.

I've heard that argument, as well, and I agree that it would not have been that easy.
From the sounds of it, he was popping in and out of the classrooms rather quickly, aiming with precision - cold and calculating. Unfortunately, they would not have had the chance.
I've also heard the argument that those in the rooms next to where the shootings were being done, students in there should have banded together and rushed him. Only problem is, how did the students in the other rooms know there was only one person?
It is easy for us many miles away to look back on a series of events as they are slowly laid out in front of us - but few of us know exactly how we would react if faced with the same situation.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by GAC

It's not hard for those who are not criminals either pedro. Believe me. If you really want to buy a gun "under the table" or via the black market, you can do it very easily. You might (unknowingly) have a friend of a friend who could help you get a gun because he might know someone or a contact. They are just not gonna advertise it until someone possibly inquires. One can go to a nightclub, bar, or various other public venues, and discreetly put the word out in a casual conversation that you're looking to obtain a gun, and sooner or later you will score.

It is no different if someone wanted to score some pot or other types of drugs. You don't necessarily have to hang out with or associate with those that sell it. You discreetly get the word out and you will be approached to make that one time buy.

I don't associate or hang around with any of the above types. But I know guys at work that do and/or are involved in such activities. If I wanted it bad enough I could approach them, no questions asked, and get what I needed.

Prohibition didn't work with alcohol, and it won't work with guns either. Just make those within the black market, who are already making handsome profits, even more profitable. And they are not making it simply off of other criminals.

What we need in this country is a better centralized (computerized) background checking system, and possibly some tougher regulations as to who can/can't buy a gun.

Perhaps, but I would have preferred that he would have he would have had to go through illegal channels to obtain an automatic weapon. Certainly that would have been more difficult than the manner in which he did obtain the guns and oddly enough, as easily available as guns are, no one on campus Monday seemed to have one with which to protect themselves.

[Chip R]

Looks like the kids who were killed will receive posthumous degrees from VA Tech.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070419/..._tech_shooting

[dabvu2498]

Originally Posted by pedro

oddly enough, as easily available as guns are, no one on campus Monday seemed to have one with which to protect themselves.

That's because VPI is a "gun-free" campus.

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=11306